New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Load consistency
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Load consistency

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  1 2>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 06:30
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12818

This is a load I have for a 300Wm. Its with a 165 grain nosler Ab. I pushing it with 76 Grains of H4831sc and fed 210m primers and Remington brass.

 

I had a few box’s loaded up from a very accurate load I was thinking was around 3000FPS. I have shot this load for a year now with out testing it thru a chrony. I was able to get my hands on one to see how close my load was to all my research. I took 2 shells from each box I had loaded. This is what I came up with. I think it is pretty good and or close enough to what I was after.

 Let me know your thoughts if I can get closer or should I just let it go and be happy with it?

1.    3064

2.    3079

3.    3110

4.    3115

5.    3079

6.    3062

7.    3045

8.    3044

9.    2958

10.  3039

11.  3082

12.  3073

 

If I have done my math right the average FPS is 3059

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 07:03
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: September/01/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 734
158fps extreme spread.
Were it mine I'd be tempted to get that down to under 20fps.
 
How far was the chronograph screen from the muzzle when you measured these?
Mike
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 07:09
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
 Mike,
 
I had it set up 15 feet fromt he muzzle.
 
When I was doing this I was shooting groups at 100yards. the groups were pretty good. I took the camera to take a few pictuers but I broke it as I do most everything else.
 
Do you have any sugeston on how to get this down to 20fps spread? I always weight my powder twice on 2 different scales so It is exactly 76 grains.If I go up do you think it will close the gap?
 
Thanks for your input.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:24
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
are these loads from two different cans of powder???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:28
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12818

It was all from the same batch.

all loaded same day same temps. all shots was 5 minutes apart.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:34
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
were the primers from the same batch?? 158fps is a big spread, the ambiant temp must of changed or something that a pretty big spread
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:36
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
Primers was from the same batch/box.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:38
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
that 2958fps tells me something  is missing, you shouldnt have dropped off that bad
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:46
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12818

yeah Thats what I was thinking and the 3110 abd 3115 seemed like a big jump to me also.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 08:53
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
yeah to me it looks like you should be in that 3045-3065 area
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 09:02
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 5753
I agree with Pyro, the spread is a bit wide.
Maybe the problem is with the brass. Have you tried outside neck turning to get a more even crimping?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 09:13
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12818

8,

I haven't tryed that yet. The brass has been shot 8 times or so. I will try some new brass and see where it leads me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 15:14
silver View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: November/04/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2291
How was your tempature spread during that day?  Three shots threw your standard devation off.  Otherwise it did not look that bad.  How much time between shots?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 15:16
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
It was a 60 degree day. I shot from 9am untill 12 pm.the temps stayed the same that day for somereason. I waited 5 minutes between each shot to let everything settle down and take my notes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 18:44
ckk1106 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: December/14/2007
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1435
Are those chronographs that accurate?  Are there some that are more accurate than others, or are they all about the same.  I know that some cost more.  Just wondering.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 18:51
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: September/01/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 734
I'd move the chrono back to about 25 feet, you may have been reading exhuast gas and residual particulate matter from the barrel at 15 feet.
 
165 grain for a 300 is on the light side.
 
Here's what  i do, it may work for you;
 
All brass same mfg.
 
When sizing. I pay attention to the pull out force of the expander ball through the case neck.  A simple "how does this feel" from case to case.  Discard any that offer little  resistance when compared to the group as a whole.
 
All cases trimmed to the same length.
 
Take your press, measure and dies, along with prepped and primed brass to the range.
Have your measure set at some predetermined weight.  You should know what an increase of 1 increment on your measure corresponds to for the powder you've chosen.
Start throwing charges and shooting until you get :
A.     Pressure indicators
B.     Close to your velocity
 
Throw a group of three and shoot for velocity.  Shoot these carefully on paper, record the results.  No real need to wait 5 minutes between shots, although the chronograph will not get bored if you do.
 
If this gets close to a decent extreme spread, bump the charge up about 2-3 tenths grain and repeat.  You may also need to go back just a bit and repeat.
 
Somewhere in there in about 30 minutes work you'll have a load with a decent velocity, accuracy, and chrono numbers.  ( I remain alittle dubious about that light  a bullet in front of that much powder though).
 
When you go home, throw and weigh 100 charges.  Take the average as your charge weight.  What you will have done is to develop a load that has a charge weight tolerance of
+/- 1.5 to 2/10th grain of powder, and will shoot accurately.
When you weigh each charge the charge error will have been cut by 1/2 over your range development, making the resultant load very accurate.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 19:18
BeltFed View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: February/12/2008
Location: Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 16076
What brass are you using, is it the same lot, and how many times has it been reloaded, have you weighed the cases or turned any of the necks? What is a decent group size?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2008 at 07:22
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
Thanks Mike, I'll give it a shot.
 
Belt,
The brass is all rem brass from same lot number.It has been shot 8 times. I have not turned any necks. A good size group I'm getting a dime will cover at 100yards.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2008 at 14:27
BeltFed View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: February/12/2008
Location: Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 16076
If you can cover your 100yd. group with a dime why care what the chronograph says! Which is better, consistant sub MOA groups or consistant velocity? As long as your getting enough velocity to get your desired results, then I think that accuracy is your main goal. A deer, groundhog, or X-ring doesn't know the difference between getting hit with a 168gr bthp traveling at 2900fps or 3050fps; all they know is that they got hit. I would trust the results on paper before I would trust a chronograph. If you can get tighter groups by getting more consistant readings on a chronograph then go for it. If you get more consistant velocities but your groups open up, then what have you accomplished? A chronograph is only a tool to help you achieve accuracy, not define it. I may be a grasshopper here, but I've been a firearms instructor for 30 years, a reloader for 34, and a cheapskate for 50. Thats my opinion; feel free to ignore it.Bucky 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2008 at 14:55
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

If you can cover your 100yd. group with a dime why care what the chronograph says! Which is better, consistant sub MOA groups or consistant velocity? As long as your getting enough velocity to get your desired results, then I think that accuracy is your main goal. A deer, groundhog, or X-ring doesn't know the difference between getting hit with a 168gr bthp traveling at 2900fps or 3050fps; all they know is that they got hit. I would trust the results on paper before I would trust a chronograph. If you can get tighter groups by getting more consistant readings on a chronograph then go for it. If you get more consistant velocities but your groups open up, then what have you accomplished? A chronograph is only a tool to help you achieve accuracy, not define it. I may be a grasshopper here, but I've been a firearms instructor for 30 years, a reloader for 34, and a cheapskate for 50. Thats my opinion; feel free to ignore it.Bucky 
 
beltfed welcome to the OT forum. 
I agree. when I started this load i was looking for 3000fps.I have shot ot for a few years and had no probles at all with hutning/targets or anything else. I was just wundering about the spread. But it shoots great groups so I might let it B. I have also notice that going up 2 grains on powder my POI dose NOT change at all @ 100 and my groups stay the same.I'm not sure how but it dose.
 
Thanks
For all the info GUYS.
 


Edited by Bigdaddy0381 - February/26/2008 at 15:03
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2008 at 15:20
BeltFed View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: February/12/2008
Location: Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 16076
By the way what is your trimed case length and overall cartridge length, and do you neck size or full length size? What rifle are you using? How familiar are you with your chronograph? If not properly set up this can effect your readings.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2008 at 19:09
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: September/01/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 734
BD, that's a very nice group.  Have you tried at 200 or  300 yards to see what you have?
 
It would be interesting to see  if that load will keep 3 shots inside 1 inch at 200 yards.
If it does, why screw with it other than the search for more/faster/better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 03:10
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 5753
I was reading an article on extreme spread. The writer was confirming some of the earlier observations of Beltfed and others. Above all else, look at your actual target. With a grouping like that, who cares what the chronograph says? Other then you need to know your average velocity to calculate bullet drop, energy levels etc.
If you have access to a Bullet Drop Calculator, run your highest and lowest speeds through it and see what the POI will be at 100 200 and 300yds. This guy did this as an example and the POI was only 5/1000 of an inch different at 100yds in his example!
So the real effect may be small.
I have a new batch of casings, and found that when turning the necks that they still required shavings taken of one side. So even as new they were not up to standard.


Edited by 8shots - February/27/2008 at 03:11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 05:17
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 5753
I ran the velocities through a ballistics program:
2958 v's 3115:
At 100yds POI=3/16inch difference.
At 200yds POI = 4/5inch difference.
At 300yds POI = 2 inches different.
 
Maybe someone can check my numbers. I did it pretty roughly.
 
So it appears at 100yds your extreme spread will not be a problem, but over longer distances it can become a problem. Allthough a 2 inch grouping at 300yds is pretty hot shot anyway.
 


Edited by 8shots - February/27/2008 at 05:18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 08:59
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12818

Awesome Info guys.

 

I'm going out this or next weekend to start my food plots I like to lay the lime down this time of year and again when we plant. Okay task at hand. When I'm out there i will do a 5 shot group @ 100yards then a 200yard 5 shot group then a 300 yards group. I will only do 1 five shot group for each. I will bring my results back and see how we can fix them or just let them be,

 

I was hunting one Saturday and was walking out and some birds were in a tree. I grabbed a buddies range finder and ranged the first bird @ 248yards.I laid down prone and BAM he splatter the rest flew down the creek. I moved around ranged 348yards and BOM a bunch of black feathers everywhere. we walked of and I hit both birds dead center about 1 to 2 inches below there heads.  I feel really good with this load but I can't let anything be. I always want to try something new or make it better. That’s just me.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  1 2>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Load consistency"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Subsonic Loads Bigdaddy0381 Reloading & Ballistics 23
Load development scope? LIMPINGJ Target 2
Some load results Gil P. Shooting 45
.308 Hand loads for long range Savage11B Reloading & Ballistics 30
Heavy 223 loads captainemil Reloading & Ballistics 20
load developement Tip69 Reloading & Ballistics 33
308 Load Test SVT_Tactical The Range Report 16
223 deer load for 1 and 8 twist AR jselsor Reloading & Ballistics 41
hornady loads.. bobaldoo Reloading & Ballistics 13
Load by volume or by weight? 8shots Reloading & Ballistics 30


This page was generated in 0.484 seconds.