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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2012 at 18:42
Gil P. View Drop Down
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When shooting prone it seems like no matter what I do the rifle recoils into my collar bone, and it is unpleasant, especially after shooting in that position for a while.

I wonder if anyone else has had this problem before and if they found a solution for it. I have been looking into getting a slip-on Limbsaver, the downside is it would increase the LOP which I may or may not like. Are there any other products or anything homemade I can use to alleviate the problem?

This is a 308 Remington 700 with a B&C M40 style stock installed.


Edited by Gil P. - September/14/2012 at 11:04
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2012 at 19:28
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Originally posted by Gil P. Gil P. wrote:

When shooting prone it seems like no matter what I do the rifle recoils into my collar bone, and it is unpleasant, especially after shooting in that position for a while.

I wonder if anyone else has had this problem before and if they found a solution for it. I have been looking into getting a slip-on Limbsaver, the downside is it would increase the LOP which I may or may not like. Are there any other products or anything homemade I can use to alleviate the problem?

With a .308? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2012 at 19:32
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Yes a 308
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2012 at 21:19
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:


Originally posted by Gil P. Gil P. wrote:

When shooting prone it seems like no matter what I do the rifle recoils into my collar bone, and it is unpleasant, especially after shooting in that position for a while.

I wonder if anyone else has had this problem before and if they found a solution for it. I have been looking into getting a slip-on Limbsaver, the downside is it would increase the LOP which I may or may not like. Are there any other products or anything homemade I can use to alleviate the problem?




With a .308? 
      
Get a .22 lr

Peddler
              
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2012 at 21:52
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remove the factory pad and have a pre-fit or grind to fit limbsaver installed
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2012 at 21:53
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Gil, what rifle are you using?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2012 at 23:13
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I had a Rem 5R in.308 and the factory buttpad was thin. When I started shooting stout loads behind 175 gr. bullets I replaced that with a grind to fit. No need to deal with excessive recoil. And pay no attention to idiotic remarks about getting a .22 instead. Some stocks and loads transmit more recoil to the shooter.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 00:08
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One can experience the same heavy recoil effect while stretched low over a bench.
Maybe some of these tricks will help:
You mentioned whacking your collar bone- might  try moving around and adjust a different hold... lead with that shoulder and have that elbow off the ground (if you can and stay steady- this will pull your fore end hand closer to you. Small rear bags can help... set the corner of the butt stock into the bag. Make sure you have the rifle firmly into your shoulder and have a firm grip- not to the point of upsetting your aim. The idea is to give more of you body more room to roll with it. A loose grip while prone can also get you a new eyebrow.

The slip on limbsaver might actually work, as you then may be able to get your rifle into a better position on your shoulder- you may be trying to compensate to maintain eye relief and get the rest wrong. Tape on a folded newspaper or something to approximate slip on thickness and try fit.

If it's a Remy- try one of the Remington Supercell Pads, if available for your stock. The Supercell pads are Not grind to fit.
Kick-Eze also makes some great recoil pads- with grind to fit available. Have never used a Limbsaver, so can't comment.
No pad out there will cure the problem, if hold is all wrong- you'll still get beaten.

Somehow, my body seems to learn how to cope and adjust to the hard kickers after some use. They can beat me until that happens. I can't explain how it happens.

A lot of us like to kid each other about recoil on this forum, but we also know the truth.
A friend has more rifles than I can count and told me that he averages shooting about 300 rds. a week. He has the time, place, money and inclination to do it. Lat year he bought an itty bitty lt. wt. .338 Win. He doesn't want to shoot it much anymore, because it bites.

A fellow at the range recently was all smiles- the first time out with his custom built lightweight "mountain" .300 Roy. The look on his face when he packed it up after about 6-7 rds stretched over the bench told me all I needed to know.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 00:32
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Stock design, and how it fits has a lot to do with it as well. When I first bought my rifle, which started life as a plain jane Savage model 11 chambered in 300WSM, it weighed 6.6lbs before optic. And By Gum, it hurt! Not to bad for a hunting rifle, but it was bought as project to start shooting long-range. After the first couple boxes of ammo, it was pretty apparent that something had to change. So then I bought a Choate stock, and not only did it fit better, but it weighed more. Recoil was much less! Then I put big heavy barrel on it, and it got down right pleasant to shoot. And now that barrel sports a Badger Thruster brake, and it hardly moves.
 By far the most price effective means of reducing recoil, for me, has been the muzzle brake. To have my barrel threaded, brake installed and contoured to my rifle cost a total of $190. But the biggest change in accuracy came with the new stock. The new barrel helped with both...ALOT, as well.
 The next step in the journey of this rifle will probably be a lighter barrel, chambered in one of the 6.5mm cartridges...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 09:01
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I would look at a new recoil pad first then if still unpleasant a muzzle brake.  OR both.  My 300 WSM feels like a 223 with its brake and it only weighs like 7-8#s
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 10:09
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I think you guys are right about stock design having a lot to do with it. Of course, weight is also an issue. I wish muzzle brakes weren't so loud or I'd have one, even on my 13.5 lb. .308. The stock design is so good on that rifle. Combined with the weight, recoil is minimal. I've had rifles though that didn't kick all that hard even with a steel buttplate, such as the Swiss K-31. Of course any semi-auto, like my M1 Garand, soak up most of that cycling the action.
 
 
What I liked about the grind-to-fit Limbsaver was that it wasn't going to fall off. And it didn't increase LOP much. Just added a 1/4" after removing the old pad. Doing the job is a little messy and you have to be careful so the stock doesn't get scratched up. Basically, after gluing it on, you put the stock in the freezer to harden up the rubber. Then spray it with WD-40 and sand until it gets to warm. You just repeat the process until it's done. Obviously, you want to get the model that is already the closest fit! I masked off the stock so it wouldn't get bit by the sander. I did the sanding in a cardboard box so all the WD-40 coated residue didn't drip on my garage floor.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 10:25
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When shooting prone put the top tip of the stock right in that pocket under your collar bone.  Then you won't be hitting hit.  When shooting standing up put the bottom tip of the stock in that some pocket.  Doing that really helps so you are not bruising your color bone.  A proper technique makes a world of difference in felt recoil.  This will also lead to a more proper cheek weld as well which can be beneficial to consistency and accuracy. 

I shot 80 rounds one day with my 7 lb 300 wsm.  That thing kicks like a mule, but I was able to bear it because it wasn't not smacking my collar bone all that time. 

On the limbsaver topic, they are very nice.  I have them on my 300 wsm and my 45-70.  Very nice indeed.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 10:30
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

When shooting prone put the top tip of the stock right in that pocket under your collar bone.  Then you won't be hitting hit.  When shooting standing up put the bottom tip of the stock in that some pocket.  Doing that really helps so you are not bruising your color bone.  A proper technique makes a world of difference in felt recoil.  This will also lead to a more proper cheek weld as well which can be beneficial to consistency and accuracy. 
   

This is what I'm thinking too. Location, location, location....
A .308, if wielded properly, shouldn't hurt that much.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 11:15
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

One can experience the same heavy recoil effect while stretched low over a bench.
Maybe some of these tricks will help:
You mentioned whacking your collar bone- might  try moving around and adjust a different hold... lead with that shoulder and have that elbow off the ground (if you can and stay steady- this will pull your fore end hand closer to you. Small rear bags can help... set the corner of the butt stock into the bag. Make sure you have the rifle firmly into your shoulder and have a firm grip- not to the point of upsetting your aim. The idea is to give more of you body more room to roll with it. A loose grip while prone can also get you a new eyebrow.

The slip on limbsaver might actually work, as you then may be able to get your rifle into a better position on your shoulder- you may be trying to compensate to maintain eye relief and get the rest wrong. Tape on a folded newspaper or something to approximate slip on thickness and try fit.

If it's a Remy- try one of the Remington Supercell Pads, if available for your stock. The Supercell pads are Not grind to fit.
Kick-Eze also makes some great recoil pads- with grind to fit available. Have never used a Limbsaver, so can't comment.
No pad out there will cure the problem, if hold is all wrong- you'll still get beaten.

Somehow, my body seems to learn how to cope and adjust to the hard kickers after some use. They can beat me until that happens. I can't explain how it happens.

A lot of us like to kid each other about recoil on this forum, but we also know the truth.
A friend has more rifles than I can count and told me that he averages shooting about 300 rds. a week. He has the time, place, money and inclination to do it. Lat year he bought an itty bitty lt. wt. .338 Win. He doesn't want to shoot it much anymore, because it bites.

A fellow at the range recently was all smiles- the first time out with his custom built lightweight "mountain" .300 Roy. The look on his face when he packed it up after about 6-7 rds stretched over the bench told me all I needed to know.


Ill try to adjust my hold like you said and lead with my right shoulder. I dont let the thing get a running start at me by having a loose hold but even still very irritating. I think the butt needs to be taller. When I am in that position, only a small portion of the top of the butt pad is touching my shoulder (collar bone). I know if I got more contact area between me and the rifle, I would be fine. I think the problem is that the recoil is concentrated on that one small spot, right there on the bone.

I dont have any problems shooting in any other positions except for prone.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 11:33
Gil P. View Drop Down
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I should be able to go shoot on Sunday so i'll let you all know how that goes. There must be something im doing wrong. Ill take some of your advice and try to fix my position first.

Billy, my barrel is actually already threaded for a muzzle brake but I would only do that as a last resort my gun doesnt kick really hard or anything, its just that prone position im having trouble with. How loud is your 300WSM with that brake on it in an open field? Do you need to double up your hearing protection?


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 11:36
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

I think you guys are right about stock design having a lot to do with it. Of course, weight is also an issue. I wish muzzle brakes weren't so loud or I'd have one, even on my 13.5 lb. .308. The stock design is so good on that rifle. Combined with the weight, recoil is minimal. I've had rifles though that didn't kick all that hard even with a steel buttplate, such as the Swiss K-31. Of course any semi-auto, like my M1 Garand, soak up most of that cycling the action.
 
 
What I liked about the grind-to-fit Limbsaver was that it wasn't going to fall off. And it didn't increase LOP much. Just added a 1/4" after removing the old pad. Doing the job is a little messy and you have to be careful so the stock doesn't get scratched up. Basically, after gluing it on, you put the stock in the freezer to harden up the rubber. Then spray it with WD-40 and sand until it gets to warm. You just repeat the process until it's done. Obviously, you want to get the model that is already the closest fit! I masked off the stock so it wouldn't get bit by the sander. I did the sanding in a cardboard box so all the WD-40 coated residue didn't drip on my garage floor.


How did you get the old butt pad off? Did you just cut it and then sand the remainder off the end of the stock? Did the new pad make a noticeable difference?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 11:37
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When I am on the rifle, I have not noticed much difference. I have been asked to adjust my shooting position at a match, when we were kind of bunched up on a firing line. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 11:57
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Originally posted by Gil P. Gil P. wrote:

I think the butt needs to be taller. When I am in that position, only a small portion of the top of the butt pad is touching my shoulder (collar bone). I know if I got more contact area between me and the rifle, I would be fine. I think the problem is that the recoil is concentrated on that one small spot, right there on the bone.


That is actually okay that it is only touching in one spot.  The problem is you are putting that small spot right on your collar bone.  No matter what gun you shoot that is going to make you tender.  Stick that little spot on the stock right under your collar bone in that pocket and it will help alot. 

At the school I attend that actually teach with long guns whether prone or upright only the very top or very bottom of the stock actually has much contact with your pocket.  Alot of people feel the whole butt needs to be touching, but this way really seems to work well with the hard kickers. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 11:58
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Originally posted by Gil P. Gil P. wrote:



How did you get the old butt pad off? Did you just cut it and then sand the remainder off the end of the stock? Did the new pad make a noticeable difference?


If it is glued on like on the HS stocks, put the stock in the freezer over night.  Then get a putty knife or small chisel and gently tap it and the glue will break loose and it will fall right off. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2012 at 17:42
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Originally posted by Gil P. Gil P. wrote:



How did you get the old butt pad off? Did you just cut it and then sand the remainder off the end of the stock? Did the new pad make a noticeable difference?


If it is glued on like on the HS stocks, put the stock in the freezer over night.  Then get a putty knife or small chisel and gently tap it and the glue will break loose and it will fall right off. 
That's what I did. It works pretty well...just take your time lining up the chisel at first. Getting it right in the seam will usually help the whole thing pop off in one or two hits.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2012 at 17:15
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Good news, I put the tip of the top of the recoil pad just under my collar bone as suggested and, like magic, I didnt feel a thing. I can shoot all day long in the prone position now, thanks everyone.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2012 at 20:19
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Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Originally posted by Gil P. Gil P. wrote:



How did you get the old butt pad off? Did you just cut it and then sand the remainder off the end of the stock? Did the new pad make a noticeable difference?


If it is glued on like on the HS stocks, put the stock in the freezer over night.  Then get a putty knife or small chisel and gently tap it and the glue will break loose and it will fall right off. 
That's what I did. It works pretty well...just take your time lining up the chisel at first. Getting it right in the seam will usually help the whole thing pop off in one or two hits.

Now you tell me. Sunday I finally ended up sawing the thin hard red butt plate that was glued on off my older A-bolt. Installed the Limbsaver my daughter gave me for fathers day.  Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2012 at 11:26
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Does it work? Thats all that matters.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/21/2012 at 16:38
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The saw works fine. It's a 1938 Craftsman 10"Cast Iron table saw. The 80 tooth blade cut smooth as silk. Attached the Llimbsaver. With only minor sanding on the pad base it fits like it was made for it. The LOP fits me better too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/21/2012 at 18:18
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You could also look into getting a PAST Recoil Shield when bench/target shooting in addition to the Limbsaver.  I absolutely have to use one when sighting the 375 RUM otherwise it is just downright nasty.  Here's a couple of links with some info if you're interested:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/284105/past-mag-plus-recoil-pad-shield-ambidextrous

http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/past/


Edited by Dogger - September/21/2012 at 18:23
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