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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2013 at 22:16
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I called Leupold recently in an attempt to clear up some confusion regarding the difference in the VX3, VX6, and VX7. First, I asked if VX7 glass was put into the VX3 as I have read on several sites. Though some people were adamant that it was a fact, it seemed ludicrous to me since the VX7 hovered around $1500 when it was readily available and the VX3 currently hovers around $500. The gentleman stated that when the VX7 was discontinued, they did not put VX7 glass in the VX3 though some of the VX7 technology went into the VX3. Next I asked if VX7 glass was put into the new VX6 and he confirmed that was true. I believe he stated that the coatings weren't exactly the same but the glass is. Afterwards, I asked him if it were his money, which would he buy, the new VX6 or try to locate a VX7. He stated that he personally owned the VX6 and loves it but that it was only because he likes more of the new VX6 features than the older VX7. According to the gentleman I spoke to, glass should not a factor for either.

With that said, of those that have owned the VX7 and now own the VX6 (or still have both), which do you refer and why? Regarding the features, which do you prefer and why? I ask because I've never gotten the opportunity to handle or look through a VX7 while VX6's are readily available.

Now, I know some people will feel the urge to chime in with their bias towards European optics and describe how much more superior they are and that I'm wasting my money on American optics. Regardless, I do not care about purchasing anything other than Leupold glass. I know, a pro American guy. The nerve in today's global economy. I prefer to ensure American employment and take a minor hit on glass or coatings, however minor it may be with the new VX6 or discontinued VX7.    
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2013 at 22:34
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Originally posted by opticalillusion opticalillusion wrote:

I called Leupold recently in an attempt to clear up some confusion regarding the difference in the VX3, VX6, and VX7. First, I asked if VX7 glass was put into the VX3 as I have read on several sites. Though some people were adamant that it was a fact, it seemed ludicrous to me since the VX7 hovered around $1500 when it was readily available and the VX3 currently hovers around $500. The gentleman stated that when the VX7 was discontinued, they did not put VX7 glass in the VX3 though some of the VX7 technology went into the VX3. Next I asked if VX7 glass was put into the new VX6 and he confirmed that was true. I believe he stated that the coatings weren't exactly the same but the glass is. Afterwards, I asked him if it were his money, which would he buy, the new VX6 or try to locate a VX7. He stated that he personally owned the VX6 and loves it but that it was only because he likes more of the new VX6 features than the older VX7. According to the gentleman I spoke to, glass should not a factor for either.

With that said, of those that have owned the VX7 and now own the VX6 (or still have both), which do you refer and why? Regarding the features, which do you prefer and why? I ask because I've never gotten the opportunity to handle or look through a VX7 while VX6's are readily available.

Now, I know some people will feel the urge to chime in with their bias towards European optics and describe how much more superior they are and that I'm wasting my money on American optics. Regardless, I do not care about purchasing anything other than Leupold glass. I know, a pro American guy. The nerve in today's global economy. I prefer to ensure American employment and take a minor hit on glass or coatings, however minor it may be with the new VX6 or discontinued VX7.    
I presume you are talking about that "Leupold glass" that comes from Pacific Rim countries???  It doesn't come from America...
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 08:46
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opticalillusion, just be prepared for the usual BS-fest from some around here about Leupold stuff.  It goes with the territory.  I've never used a VX7, but have looked through a couple and obviously the glass is first rate.  I do own the VX6 2-12x42.  It has excellent glass, easily on par with the Swaro Z3 and superior to the Conquest.  I've done the side by side many times.  It is also the most user friendly variable I have ever used or compared, especially at the higher mags.  I've also used the CDS to hit targets from 200-900 and everything in between.  Adjustments are repeatable and accurate so far.  We'll see how it holds up, but it is very impressive to say the least.   All of these assessments are based on hunting glass, as I'm into the tactical stuff. 

For the record, I own/have owned lots of stuff...S&B, Zeiss, Swaro, Nikon, Weaver, and probably a few other scopes I've forgotten about.  I'm not a loyalist by any stretch, but I know what I like and why, and get to compare loads of glass that come into our hunting camps.   

Hope that helps.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 09:29
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

opticalillusion, just be prepared for the usual BS-fest from some around here about Leupold stuff.  It goes with the territory. 


Coming from you that is freaking hilarious.  You are the biggest brand basher on the site. 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 10:59
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I speak from first hand experience tool.  That's a good name for you BTW.  
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 11:21
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Has anyone from Leupold ever said why there is such a large price gap between the VX6 and VX7 given that they sport the same level of glass, not to mention that the VX6 has a larger zoom range ?
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 11:59
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I speak from first hand experience tool.  That's a good name for you BTW.  


Always comical how your first hand experience differs from virtually everyone else on the site. 

Way to go on the name calling, I bet it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.  Bucky
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 12:00
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VX-7 was a perfectly respectable scope, but not good enough for the amount of money they wanted for it.

Specifically, while the image quality of the VX-7 was quite respectable, the eyepiece design was not good enough for the price range.

VX-6 I like a lot more.  It is a good scope and a good value considering what if offers for the money.  I think it is the first (or close to it) Leupold scope that does not force me to change my head position when changing magnification.  

Now, saying that "VX-7 glass was put into VX-6" is a non-sequiter and that phrase basically means that whoever you were talking is a lying sack of salesman, or does not know what he is talking about.  Most likely it is the latter since vast majority of people who work for large optics companies' service departments can't tell their ass from an elbow the moment you try to get into details.  That is not unique to Leupold.

VX-6 and VX-7 are completely different designs and overall I like VX-6 a lot more.

Oh, and JG, the fact that a lot of people have something negative to say about Leupold is not necessarily a reflection of their bias.  Quite possibly, it is a reflection of Leupold sitting on their laurels and falling behind technologically for far too long.

More recently, Leupold got off its collective behind and reworked a lot of their product line with much more modern and capable designs.  That is a tacit admission that they snoozed at the wheel for a bit.  However, their new scopes are good and good for the money.  I like both VX-R and VX-6 quite a bit.  VX-3 is also a competent design that is a good step ahead of VX-III, although I wish they would finally fix that eyepiece.

I have not really looked at the redesigned VX-2 yet.

ILya
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 12:00
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Check fire, Raider.

Nobody bashed your optics brand, or cancelled Christmas, or told kindergarten kids the tooth fairy is a myth.
C'mon man. Seriously...
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 12:32
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Koshkin
"I wish they would finally fix that eyepiece." ?
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 12:56
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Originally posted by pc4life pc4life wrote:

Koshkin
"I wish they would finally fix that eyepiece." ?

Variable eye relief and limited FOV.

ILya
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 13:21
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

opticalillusion, just be prepared for the usual BS-fest from some around here about Leupold stuff.  It goes with the territory. 



Just because we do not agree with you does not mean it is BS. And in the past Leupold was over priced for what you got.

And as far as the VX6 is concerned I was able to look through two of them. A 1-6 and a 2-12. I liked what I saw and thought Leupold had definitely upped their game. 

Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 13:41
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I have negative things to say about Leupold too, but I report what I see with my own eyes, in the field, not in some store, actually using and hunting with the stuff.  Lots of folks talk out their azzz about what they read, or what some other guy says, look through and compare them at Cabelas, unmounted, etc.  That's my point.  

cheaptrick, I don't have an optics brand.  I've got several.  
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 13:55
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I have negative things to say about Leupold too, but I report what I see with my own eyes, in the field, not in some store, actually using and hunting with the stuff.  Lots of folks talk out their azzz about what they read, or what some other guy says, look through and compare them at Cabelas, unmounted, etc.  That's my point.  

cheaptrick, I don't have an optics brand.  I've got several.  

Of the people who you butt head with here, who specifically is it that you think only looks at scope in stores or unmounted?

ILya
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 14:06
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Have no idea and don't care.  You really expect someone to admit they test scopes like that? 

So what's your definition of "butt heads with"?


Edited by JGRaider - August/01/2013 at 14:13
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 14:30
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Have no idea and don't care.  You really expect someone to admit they test scopes like that? 
 
It is a straw man argument, then. You are inventing some imaginary fallacy for someone you disagree with, so that you could justify your own opinions.
 
Well, as long as you are open about it, there is no harm done, I suppose.
 
ILya
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 14:41
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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

opticalillusion, just be prepared for the usual BS-fest from some around here about Leupold stuff.  It goes with the territory. 



Just because we do not agree with you does not mean it is BS. And in the past Leupold was over priced for what you got.

And as far as the VX6 is concerned I was able to look through two of them. A 1-6 and a 2-12. I liked what I saw and thought Leupold had definitely upped their game. 



I suppose I should be clear here. It was at the range. 100 to 300yds in both sunny and dark overcast light conditions. The 1-6 was on a Dakota 76 and I do not remember what the 2-12 was on other than it was a 243.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 15:28
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Koshkin, the only thing bigger than my fallacy is your ego.   
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 15:30
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Koshkin, the only thing bigger than my fallacy is your ego.   

Quite possibly.  

However, I do not recall my ego making any claims on how other people evaluate scopes.

ILya
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 16:31
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Koshkin, the only thing bigger than my fallacy is your ego.   

And just how black is that pot? Looks too me like you got all the ego going on.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 16:45
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Wow.

Having more money than sense... Vs. having more sense than money.





Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 16:49
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Koshkin, the only thing bigger than my fallacy is your ego.   


Good Grief. I guess when one does not have any facts to back one's opinion up they resort to name calling.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 19:35
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I looked through several brands in an outdoor store today. Mounted to a replica stock including the ones brought up by the OP, pretty hard for me to tell the difference from one "eye box" to the next. I guess I don't know what to look for. Crap shoot?
Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 20:07
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

opticalillusion, just be prepared for the usual BS-fest from some around here about Leupold stuff.  It goes with the territory.


JG, you start your thread out with this, and then you act incredulous when guys predictably object to your characterization. Why? How in the world can this be interpreted in any way other than you criticizing and talking down to the collective membership here? How would you react if someone made the exact same statement about something you said? In light of your many Leica posts, isn't this just a tad hypocritical?

So if one disagrees with your opinion, they obviously don't know what they're talking about and they must not have ever used the product in question?


Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2013 at 20:22
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There are a small handful of members here who just flat out dislike Leupold. That's their prerogative, as we all prefer different things for different reasons, and that doesn't make anyone wrong. People who dislike something tend to be more vocal about their dislikes, and negative comments tend to be remembered more than positive ones. Believe it or not, the majority of OT members have positive opinions of Leupold overall. I've heard the "anti-Leupold" accusations leveled at OT so many times, I decided to see for myself if the accusation was true. So, back in 2008, I posted a poll...

http://www.opticstalk.com/ot-leupold-poll_topic14044_post151615.html?KW=leupold+poll#151615

Giving constructive criticism of something doesn't mean one dislikes that something. If you read the overwhelming majority of Leupold comments on this forum objectively, you will find very few OT members disagree that Leupolds are very good, solid scopes. Over the years, the main consensus criticism of Leupold here has simply been that they were falling behind some of their competitors on features when comparing other scopes of equivalent MSRP. For those who'd rather have greater FOV and fixed ER over long (but variable) ER and lighter weight, this is a very legitimate criticism.

Speaking only for myself, I like Leupold scopes. I own several, and have for 39 of my 46 years. For a time during the 1980's and most of the 1990's, most of my rifles wore Leupolds. During the early 2000's I noticed that other scopes at the same price point were offering visibly better resolution, contrast, and light transmission (to my eyes). As I started buying other brands, I developed a preference for the feature set offered by some of these competing brands. As my income grew, I was willing to spend a bit more if I thought I was getting more in return. Despite this, I still respected Leupold (and still do), and acknowledge that they set the benchmark for customer service, warranty, and selection for the optics industry in the US market.

I'm really impressed with some of their new scopes, specifically the VX-3 and VX-6, and for a change, I think they represent an excellent value for the $ again. But, it was only because of competition that they made such great strides, because they had indeed become stagnant and complacent during the past couple decades. They still have variable eye relief. It took them forever to totally abandon friction style W/E adjustments and embrace etched reticles, advanced coatings, and fast focus diopter adjustment. They have been perhaps the worst offender of putting out scopes with noticeably canted reticles. I've personally owned 2 Leupolds with reticles canted more than 3-degrees. Their side focus mechanics have had issues with backlash.

Again, I think they've really made significant improvements in the past 5 years or so. I now believe their better hunting scopes are fully on par with their competitors, though I believe they're still a bit behind the curve on their tactical scopes compared to today's competition. If only they would add a hydrophobic coating and fixed ER to their "VX-3 and up" lines, I'd own a lot more Leupolds.
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