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Leupold vs. Swarovski

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 08:24
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Leupold I vs. swaro 1st focal plane

Edited by SAKO75 - February/17/2009 at 12:32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 08:35
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your point ??
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 08:38
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i think its quite obvious to me what you should do, based on what i read here i would tell you to buy the leupold, your giving it all the information you can find and hardly talked about the swaro, sounds to me like you have already made your mind.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 08:44
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Swarovski doesnt quite offer the marketing info...plus this scope has been discontinued. I love the swaro, i just think the Z6 is an improvement all the way around but the price is ridiculous

I feel their adjustments and erector setup are precise...

They dont offer a care package but provide top service if needed

I guess the eye relief/eyebox argument is pretty important...The swaro is lacking in that department

I was just looking for info from you guys on both, whether 1st or 2nd hand...


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 09:02
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Sako, your post reads like an ad for Leupold. Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself to purchase the VX7. For a second, I thought Eremicus wrote that post.......grin On a serious note, I'd bag both and go with a VM/V 2.5-10x50 and NEVER look back.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 09:03
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Well.. You can see throught the Swaro.  You have left out a couple of things that can be important.  Are you going to put this gun a some sort of mag rifle where eye relief and recoil tolerance is an issue?  How do the Field of Views compare?

Why should a company "give" you a bunch of "crap" to buy a product? Does the product not stand on its own merits?  "L" has a co-operative mareting agreement in place with a company.  So you are pay them to put you on somebody elses "list" 

You are payinging for a "free" customer shop upgrade? WTF? Buyer remorce?
 
Next, they already have a hot line number set up set up in the service department for these scopes????  Think about that for a minute? 
 
Now I think the eyebox thing is the best argument to be made.  The other arguments suck.  If the scope fits you that's one thing.  There is no free lunch.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 13:26
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Well FOV goes slightly to the SWARO which it hsould because it has shorter eye relief.

Edited by SAKO75 - February/17/2009 at 12:30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 14:03
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The VX-III 50mm cost me a shot at a nice deer that I could clearly see through Leo Pinnacles 10x42 this past December..............Now, they are all gone and replaced with Z6's and one Helia C.  I'm only paying $1400 OTD for the  1.7x10x42 Z6's I have bought, from an authorized dealer............Thought I saw one last week at $1399 on the sample list. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 14:10
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Yeah, still there, Stock#8880, 100% new in the box. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 17:31
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Originally posted by SAKO75 SAKO75 wrote:


Leupold seems to get bashed alot for trying ot do things different.,
I think any scope that costs as much as premium EURO scopes do, should send customers loaners if their "super" scope goes down. So kudos to Leupold ofr actually putting it in print. I als olike how the serivce, if needed, is expedited and not sent back to Europe.

 (snip)

In the end, I didnt want to "like" the Leupold but cant find a reason not to. I cant imagine the glass would be sub par enough to cost a shot. I am sure it might not measure ot the exact percent of the euro brands but not all of us can see the difference and without hunting at night, how could you tell. My VX-III performed great in twilight minus the skinny duplex reticle...enter the XT reticle..

 
Here is my point in a nut shell.  The big L seems to to want to do anything and everything, but put in ED/APO grade glass.  It just reminds me of when the big automakers were trying to compete with the Japs for quality back in the 70's and 80's.  It's like a friend explained to me about mechanics tools with a life time warrenty.  They figure out how much it take to make a tool and then charge you twice as much so that they can cover the replacement cost should you every need it.  If you don't need it it is money to their bottom line. 
 
When something breaks is a strange way to sell things...  If it breaks, hunt is over.  By the time you call and they ship, even over night... Have a spare if it is that serious of a hunt. 
 
How can you really tell the differance? In the September 2005 American Rifleman is a resolution chart on page 76.  The article is entitled: "Resolution? How sharp is sharp?" by Bill McRae.  That is a big help.  It is not just some "subjective" thing... The camera magazines have been publishing how to test this stuff for around -SIXTY- years!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2008 at 19:22
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SURE get out the USAF resolution chart and test them  at sun up, sun down, and noon... thats one way to compare optics...

At this level, i dont think optic


Edited by SAKO75 - February/17/2009 at 12:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2008 at 08:30
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Sako:
 
Why did you sell the Zeiss V/MV?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2008 at 10:19
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Originally posted by antleraddiction antleraddiction wrote:

The VX-III 50mm cost me a shot at a nice deer that I could clearly see through Leo Pinnacles 10x42 this past December..............Now, they are all gone and replaced with Z6's and one Helia C.  I'm only paying $1400 OTD for the  1.7x10x42 Z6's I have bought, from an authorized dealer............Thought I saw one last week at $1399 on the sample list. 
 Now, let me get this straight.  You missed a shot because of the "poor" optics, relatively speaking of a Leupold VX-III scope, here in NC.  Now, I have hunted past legal limits into almost pure black and personally witnessed by my daughter's boyfriend and my nephew take a deer at 125 yards with sub-100 dollars scopes.  Do not get me wrong, I am not advocating buying cheapo scopes to hunt in low light, but I really cannot imagine a VX-III with a 50mm objective costing you a shot at a deer in NC.


Edited by Dolphin - May/20/2008 at 10:20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2008 at 11:17
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Leupold is trying, I'll give them that - but maybe it they'd try better glass rather than spending so much on marketing, I might be impressed.
 
As of now, I've looked through the VX-7, didn't look as good as my Conquest, looked about as good as the Pentax my kid has on his .22LR.
 
As said above, it sounds like you've already become drunken on the marketing hype, buy with confidence and enjoy.
 
I may buy another Leupold one day when they make something worthy of my $$; for now, I like my Swaro and see no need to switch it for something so overpriced they can throw in "free" lens covers.
 
But thats just me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2008 at 11:52
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Now, I do not own a Swarovski product, but have spent a lot of time looking through them at the local gun shop.  While I can say they are superb, I am underwhelmed by the price payed.  I would stick with Kahles for that kind of money.  I am slowly becoming a Leupold fan for several reasons.  One is variety.  If I need a scope of what ever dimensions, so to speak, they make it.  They are built to perfection, in my opinion.  I only own three, one VX-II of which I am not overly excited about the optics, but the other two are VX-IIIs and have terrific optics and as I said are flawless in their construction.  The Swarovski scopes did not appear to be finished as well, or have that feel of a finely crafted piece of machinery, so to speak.  I like the warranty.  Lifetime.  Swarovski does not even have a lifetime warranty.  What gives.  I know, you probably won't need it for a lifetime, but at that cost, it should.  Sako75, if you like the Leupold, buy it.  But, one thing you should do, that I always recommend doing always, is compare them side by side extensively, then make your decision.  You might be surprised.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2008 at 17:22
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Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Now, I do not own a Swarovski product, but have spent a lot of time looking through them at the local gun shop.  While I can say they are superb, I am underwhelmed by the price payed.  I would stick with Kahles for that kind of money.  I am slowly becoming a Leupold fan for several reasons.  One is variety.  If I need a scope of what ever dimensions, so to speak, they make it.  They are built to perfection, in my opinion.  I only own three, one VX-II of which I am not overly excited about the optics, but the other two are VX-IIIs and have terrific optics and as I said are flawless in their construction.  The Swarovski scopes did not appear to be finished as well, or have that feel of a finely crafted piece of machinery, so to speak.  I like the warranty.  Lifetime.  Swarovski does not even have a lifetime warranty.  What gives.  I know, you probably won't need it for a lifetime, but at that cost, it should.  Sako75, if you like the Leupold, buy it.  But, one thing you should do, that I always recommend doing always, is compare them side by side extensively, then make your decision.  You might be surprised.
 
First, there's no doubt that Leupold offers more variety of any other brand.  There's also no doubt that their warranty is unmatched.
 
However, I own or have owned more than 10 Leupold scopes over the years with currently 5 Leupolds in my optics collection.  I also own 3 Swarovski scopes.  I don't see how it's possible you could conclude that Swaros aren't as well finished or don't have as nice of a feel as Leupold.  Swaro's magnification rings are much smoother operating than Leupold.  Leupold's power change rings often darn near require a pair of pliers to turn.  Swaro scopes have much cleaner lines, with the power change ring integrated better with the eyepiece.  There are no seams anywhere on the tube of any Swaro scope.
 
Swarovski most definitely DOES have a lifetime warranty on their scopes:
 
Don't get me wrong; I'm not bashing Leupold and I don't think there's anything wrong with their product except that they frequently don't represent the best cost: performance value.  The VX-7 may very well be spectacular.  I looked at a few inside stores and they looked pretty impressive -- as much as I could tell from the limited evaluation one could do inside a store.  But from extensive field experience with both brands, I can tell you that Leupold doesn't even remotely approach Swarovski performance-wise.  The VX-7 may be the exception, I don't know.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2008 at 18:10
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Sako, weren't you a BIG Schmidt und Bender guy a few years ago?
Or am I confusing you with another?
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2008 at 20:43
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yep

Edited by SAKO75 - February/17/2009 at 12:32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2008 at 21:01
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If Ted thought that the Leupy power change rings were difficult to turn, try that when it is about 15 below zero!  My step son is getting my Vari XIII 2.5-8, and he still will have a better scope than that Tasco 4X that failed me at a critical moment, though. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2008 at 23:17
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I can't speak for the vx-7 but yes, I too find all of my Leupold power change rings have the same problem. Brand new, they were fine but eventually became difficult to turn. The Swarovski is silky smooth in comparison.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2008 at 02:48
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A few comments:

I have not compared the VX-7 against the Swaro head to head, so I can not talk about that too much.  I did look at the VX-7 next to Kahles CL and while VX-7 is the best Loopy I have ever seen, I would take the optics of the CL over it any day, eyerelief and all.

The care package that comes with the VX-7 is of no interest to me.  If Leupold ever wants to sell me a VX-7, they should get rid of all that add-on crap and drop the price of the VX-7 by a couple of hundred dollars.  When I buy a scope, I expect to pay for a scope with a warranty, nothing else (I was under an impression that North American Swaros have lifetime warranties).  If I want to add accessories for the scope, I will pick them myself.

Someone earlier in this thread said that he could not see wel enough through his Leupy to take a shot.  Since none of us was there with him I would NEVER be so presumptuous as to question his word.  That would be both condescending and insulting.

The finish and smoothness of Swaro scopes is as good as anything else out there bar none.  I disagree with the comments on superior feel of the Leupolds.  That has not been my experience.

Overall, if you like the feature set of a VX-7, it is a solid scope and you would not be  underscopes with it.  It will get the job done.  However, considering the price range, I do not find VX-7 to be a particularly competitive design.  I think the question that prospective VX-7 owners should be asking themselves is not how it compares to Swaros and other top notch Euro scopes, but how the VX-7 compares to the best of Asian glass from other companies.

A more pertinent question, to me, is whether the 2.5-10x45 VX-7 for $1100 is worth the extra $400 over the Elite 6500 2.5-16x42 which is lighter, has higher magnification range generous eye relief and wider field of view as well as greater adjustment range.

Similarly, is VX-7 sufficiently better than the redesigned Sightron S3 3.5-10x44 or 3.5-10x56 to warrant the price difference?  These new S3 scopes have awefully nice glass, gobs of adjustment range, nice knobs, etc.

I can extend this further and ask what about some top notch 1" tube scopes like Kahles CL and KX? or Swarovski American?

What about some of the less expensive Euro scopes like IOR 2.5-10x42 and Meopta Meostar 3-10x50?  Is the vx-7 worth the premium over these?

ILya


Edited by koshkin - May/21/2008 at 02:49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2008 at 03:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2008 at 06:15
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

A few comments:

I have not compared the VX-7 against the Swaro head to head, so I can not talk about that too much.  I did look at the VX-7 next to Kahles CL and while VX-7 is the best Loopy I have ever seen, I would take the optics of the CL over it any day, eyerelief and all.

The care package that comes with the VX-7 is of no interest to me.  If Leupold ever wants to sell me a VX-7, they should get rid of all that add-on crap and drop the price of the VX-7 by a couple of hundred dollars.  When I buy a scope, I expect to pay for a scope with a warranty, nothing else (I was under an impression that North American Swaros have lifetime warranties).  If I want to add accessories for the scope, I will pick them myself.

Someone earlier in this thread said that he could not see wel enough through his Leupy to take a shot.  Since none of us was there with him I would NEVER be so presumptuous as to question his word.  That would be both condescending and insulting.

The finish and smoothness of Swaro scopes is as good as anything else out there bar none.  I disagree with the comments on superior feel of the Leupolds.  That has not been my experience.

Overall, if you like the feature set of a VX-7, it is a solid scope and you would not be  underscopes with it.  It will get the job done.  However, considering the price range, I do not find VX-7 to be a particularly competitive design.  I think the question that prospective VX-7 owners should be asking themselves is not how it compares to Swaros and other top notch Euro scopes, but how the VX-7 compares to the best of Asian glass from other companies.

A more pertinent question, to me, is whether the 2.5-10x45 VX-7 for $1100 is worth the extra $400 over the Elite 6500 2.5-16x42 which is lighter, has higher magnification range generous eye relief and wider field of view as well as greater adjustment range.

Similarly, is VX-7 sufficiently better than the redesigned Sightron S3 3.5-10x44 or 3.5-10x56 to warrant the price difference?  These new S3 scopes have awefully nice glass, gobs of adjustment range, nice knobs, etc.

I can extend this further and ask what about some top notch 1" tube scopes like Kahles CL and KX? or Swarovski American?

What about some of the less expensive Euro scopes like IOR 2.5-10x42 and Meopta Meostar 3-10x50?  Is the vx-7 worth the premium over these?

ILya
Well, to cover a few points.  You made excellent points in stating whether the VX-7 is better than the Elite 6500 or Sightron S3 and worth the extra money.  No doubt about that.  Now with reference to the the shot taken and not being there.  I have hunted in NC all of my life since I was probably about 9 years old and it is not a difficult task.  Mostly tree stand hunting for deer.  I have personally seen, as stated two deer taken in almost pitch black with sub-100 dollar scopes, one deer on the run at a full gallop, each at about 125 yards.  I still cannot see how a shot could have been corrupted by the lesser optics of a VX-III with a 50 mm objective in good old NC as compared to any other scope on the market.  I would have to assume that there were other variables in play to cause the deer to be lost than just the lesser quality optics of the scope at hand.  Been there, done that a hundred times with much lesser scopes than a VX-III with a 50 mm objective and have never had a problem taking a deer in NC.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2008 at 06:44
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I think there are other variables at play regarding the missed opportunity. I have a 3.5-10x50 Leupold and can say without a doubt that I can't see with it what I can from my 7x42 Zeiss binos. This involves both low light and picking through heavy cover. My main deer rifle now has a Helia C because of missed opportunities.
I would think that both scopes in the O.P. would present no problems for hunting in any conditions. The Swaro glass I can confirm as excellent. The Leo I've only looked through at the Dundee Dick and Jim outlet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2008 at 06:49
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Even with my Olympus Magellan 10x40 binos I can see better than with most all of my scopes in low light and in fact with both of those deer I was using a Wally world cheapo Nikon pair of binos to find the deer and then the guys that shot them located them with their scopes.
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