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leupold scopes b&c and varmit rectile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2008 at 20:35
slicksbeagles1 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper

Joined: June/07/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7
have any of you used the leupold b&c and varmit rectile on a vx111 4.5x16x40mm or 50mm? what are the pros and cons? also which is better the 40 or 50 mm.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2008 at 22:05
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 14268
With Leupold that would be 4.5-14 not 16. 40 of course is more compact and allows a lower mounting position. 50 is just a tad larger and gives a brighter image at higher powers the difference comes out to about equal brightness at 1x higher with the 50mm. Probably of more importance is the difference found between the 1 in tube and the 30mm tube long range versions as the 30mm has 100 moa of internal adjustment as opposed to about 70 moa of internal adjustment.  Balistic Reticles only work at the maximum power of the scope  with a second focal plane scope. There are a few scopes that are first focal plane and with these as you turn the power selector ring the reticle appears to get smaller with lower powers and larger with higher powers. Leupold makes a Mark 4 FFP (First Focal Plane) in a 3.5-10x40 with M1 tactical knobs (and one in 6.5-20 and one in 8.5-25). Many of Leupolds scopes especially the VX III scopes can be custom ordered with either target knobs that have covers or tactical M1 knobs that are exposed.  Take a few minutes to look at  Kenton's balistic calibrated knobs note Leupold will custom engrave knobs to reflect balistic data also.  I think a better choice than the balistic reticles is a simple reticle like a German 4 or a duplex and adjustable target knobs so you can diall in correction for windage and trajectory - it's just a more accurate system. The poor mans version of a bdc reticle is using something like a duplex on a fixed 6x42 with the cross hair zeroed at 200 and the point where the crosshair goes from thin to thick above might be about 100 and the point below X where the crosshair goes from thin to thick might be about 300 - of course to see what it actually does takes time on the range but any reticle that has a consistent know point like the dots on a mil dot can be used for known holdover but the power needs to remain fixed for the system to work. The other way to use known trajectory of course is hold over but this is always a educated guess. The most reliable system is to dial in the correction.  One would think that a fixed 4x or 6x scope with a balistic reticle would be a very useful hunting tool however the only people that have figured that out is Trijicon with their military 4x scopes with tritium illuminated balistic reticles calibrated for the trajectory of .223 and .308 rifles.  More than one deer has been missed  with a 3-9x40 set at 3x at 200 yds with a balistic reticle that only works at 9x and the hunter walks away not knowing why the balistic reticle didnt work for them at 3x. To be successful it is important to understand that the balistic reticles only work at the highest power, and as a side note sometimes that in itself is a reason not to go to the higher power like 14x  or 20x because you really have to have a solid rest to work those high powers.  Wouldn't it be nice if one could buy a 1.5-5x with a Boone and Crocket reticle or a simple fixed 4x now that would be a hunting scope.
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Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/18/2008 at 22:19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 09:10
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight

Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
the leo varmit is a modified german 4, and bdc work at any power, however their range estimation properties are usually set at some prearranged power and not always the highest power. Even then they can be recalibrated to either range or for hold over. generally speaking sfp will raise the poi when the power is lowered, within the 100 yd site in and the 300  yd ranges most hunting is done there is little preceptable difference and certainly not the 8 in kill zone on most animals. bdc are no different in accuracy than dial in and in fact much faster. because you know the exact mil or moa hold over of what ever bar you have chosen you only then need to add 1-4 clicks , instead of dialling in say 16 clicks.  rarely if ever wil you need to go something like a full turn. Indeed if the click stops are not quite on -- in a full revolution the hold over method would be more accurate. most of this is pretty academic however, in that most hunters are shooting loads that are less than 15 fps in extreme spread-- which will give you more error in long range shooting than a so-so scope. I use a 4.5x14 leo on a 6.5x284 which is fairly "flat" to 600 or so yds. and can hit a 8 by 11 steel target on any power setting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2008 at 18:38
sscoyote View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman

Joined: October/05/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 327
I have a 4.5-14X VX-III LR with the Varmint Hunter reticle, and love it, but i do not expect it to add up to even hundred yd. intervals as most ballistic reticles r supposed to to some degree of accuracy. It's on a Savage Striker 243 WSSM, and with the 115 Berger @ only 2525 mv, the reticle isn't even close, especially windage. But as the subtensions of each stadia line is advertised in the catalog, it's easy to match them up to a ballistics program for your load, check at the range, troubleshoot if necessary, make a range sticker to put in a Butler Creek scope cap cover, and go hunting. If you're shooting 1 of the std. loads that r supposed to match even hundred yd. intervlas as the reticles r supposed to do...sort of, then it's not a problem to "tweak" the magnification of the 2nd focal plane scopes to make them work better if needed at longer ranges. 
I used to have a Burris compact 4-12X on a 17 MIV XP-100 handgun that was my go to furgetter during coyote season. The optic had a plex reticle in it that subtended 2.85 inch per hundred yds. @ 12X. It was the best ballistic reticle i ever had. With my load sighted in at 225 (i think it was--been awhile now), the lower plex post tip was zeroed @ 340 yds., and the 300 yd. mark was 0.6 of that "unit of subtension." 1 time i killed a coyote at a lasered 300 yds. in a 10 mph x-wind. Here's the entry in my doe sticker that goes into a Butler Creek scope cap cover--
...range, elevation and windage. In other words i had to aim 6 tenths down to the lower post, and 1.3 subtension units windage. I can tell u now it was a little disconcerting to aim that far off the x-hair for wind, but i killed the dog out right. I'ver often said that the best, most practical ballistic and rangefinding reticle of all for hunting is the simple plex.
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