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Leupold or Trijicon?

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cabochris View Drop Down
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    Posted: March/14/2020 at 19:30
My rifle is a Kimber Montana 2016 model in 300 Win Mag and I want to be able to shoot big game out to say 500 yards, if I choose to.  I'm looking at 2 similar scopes, Leupold VX-5HD 3-15X44 CDS-ZL2 FireDot v.s. Trijicon Credo HX 2.5-15X42 illuminated MRAD.

I've liked basic Leupold scopes, such as my VX2 3-9X40.  Then I purchased a Trijicon 3-9X40 and 2.5-10X56 AccuPoints and to my eyes the optics of the Trijicon WOW me!  The Leupold is very nice until I look through a Trijicon.  Though still a Leupold fan. 

I'm thinking I want the next step up in a scope for my Kimber.  One with great glass, parallax adjust, dial-up/MOA reticle.  As a portable hunting rig I do not want a telescope mounted on it and am trying to decide between the above Leupold or Trijicon- both of which I've located good deals/prices.  I need to choose before the deals are lost and I keep going back and fourth between the 2.

The Leupold is about 3 oz lighter.  In my mind I suspect the Trijicon glass will WOW me.  But from reviews it sounds like the VX5 HD will too?  Any thoughts here?

Eye relief is similar.  The Leupold is MOA dial up with option of CDS dials and a lit dot with Duplex.  The Trijicon is dial-up plus lit MOA reticle, which I kind of like the looks of.  I think the Leupold CDS is the fastest of the 2 getting on target at distance- range, dial and shoot.  With the Trijicon range, then dial-up based on the MOA required for your load, or use the MOA reticle... which means memorizing your ballistics or a chart.  But, if loads are changed I wouldn't have to have another custom CDS dial made, like with the Leupold.  I guess I could get used to either method.

But, I wonder how accurate the Leupold is compared to the Trijicon, such as returning to zero?  I understand lesser Leupold CDS models have/had issues?  Has this been resolved with the VX5s?

I think the Leupold would look better on my rifle, but this model has been around for a few years now and kind of reminds me of all my past Leupolds.  The Trijicon Credo HX is new, giving me the impression on more modern exciting scope.  Either would most likely work for my needs.  If I could play with both side by side, I would be able to decide quickly between the 2 as I know what I like when I see it.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Trijicon thinking it might be a bit tougher... a bit better glass?  But the smaller footprint and features of the Leupold flips me on the hour!  

Am I missing anything between these 2 scopes?  Is one as good as the other in this price range?  All opinions welcome!  

   
          
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2020 at 01:22
Add Vortex Razor HD LHT 3-15x42 to the list.

As far as your VX-5 vs Credo comparison goes, your previous experience of comparing VX2 to Accupoints has no bearing on how VX-5 compares to Credo.  These are different product lines.  The only thing in common between VX-2 and VX-5 is marketing.

As far as Credo being new goes, it is made by a Japanese OEM for Trijicon (most of Trijicon's products are not made by Trijicon), and it looks like a very competent design.  I think optically, it is quite close to VX-5, but I have not seen them side-by-side. I have seen them separately and thought both were very respectable scopes.

I do think that Razor HD LHT which has the same optical system as its predecessor HD LH, is a little better in terms of image quality, but it is close.

Razor HD LHT is new, so I do not know how it holds up yet.  I just started testing it.

VX-5s I have seen tracked and stayed zero-ed just fine.

Credo, if my guess on which design this is based on is accurate, should be fine too.

I would suggest you pick out the reticle and turret configuration that most appeals to you and go from there.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabochris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2020 at 15:08
koshkin, just checked out online the Vortex Razor HD LHT 3-15x42.  I've never given Vortex a serious look.  Perhaps I've let others sway me when I read their reviews.  The LHT sure looks nice and well made.  Wonder how the 15X eye relief is as others warn on that with previous models.  Concerned because that's the primary MOA reticle power?  The HSR 5i reticle looks interesting.  Wish the graduations were 1 MOA instead of 2 MOA.  The red dot looks nice and small.  Great mounting space.

I live in a small town and of all the brands our local Coastal carries Vortex.  So hopefully I'll be able to check out an HD model for edge to edge clarity and color/contrast.  At the MSRP price of $1399.99 it must be an excellent scope.

For hunting I've avoided more technical scopes and am still a bit hesitant.  Old School says 2-7 or 3-9, small, mounted low and that has served me well.  As an example I could sight in my 300 RUM at 300 yards and shooting out to 400 is pretty straightforward/quick, even with a quality basic scope.  But shooting 500+ becomes just too much guessing for my ethics.  Throw in my recent interest in black bears at dusk/dawn in cuts and why I want a more capable scope, without it being a telescope!  

I think a lit dot/reticle option is a must.  As is parallax adjust and great glass.  But what about custom dials v.s. non?  On paper they sound wonderful- just dial your distance.  1 custom dial for 1 gun and load based on specific conditions.  If any of that changes one needs a new dial.  Heck a whole collection of dials?  OK, but if that system works, Great and that's on my Leupold scope choice!  On the other hand by choosing an MOA dial-up/reticle combo I have more options when it comes to changes, loads, altitudes, with use of a ballistics program?  I read some say they plain do not like dial up because of the mechanics involved and they prefer reticle use.  So besides choosing one of these 3 scopes any opinions/advice on custom load specific dials v.s. straight MOA dial/reticle?            

 

    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2020 at 17:16
Both of the scopes you mentioned so far are SFP as well, so the reticle dimensions will only be accurate on highest power as well.  

Eye relief on the HD LH is consistent through the magnification range same as on the VX-5 and Credo.

Street price on all three is about the same, I think.

As far as BDC turrets go, personally, I do not like this idea very much, but it makes for good marketing and everyone is doing.  The LHT I just received has an extra blank turret in the box and a coupon for a custom laser engraved strip from Kenton that will go on it.

My personal take on this is that if you are planning to shoot at distances that require dialing, learn to use mrad or MOA.  It is not that difficult and works with any shooting conditions if you know what you are doing.  BDC turrets or reticles are perfect for one set of conditions only.  Once conditions start changing you are much better off with a standard system of some sort.  What BDC turrets and reticles are really amazing for is impressing your friends at a shooting range that has steel plates positioned every hundred yards.  

For everything else, I would much rather have a normal mrad reticle with mrad turrets (or MOA if you are one of those weirdos :-))

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabochris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2020 at 19:01
Just got back from looking at some Vortex Scopes at local store.  They didn't have an HD.  The scopes they stocked ran $450 to $850.  Viper HST/PST tactical types.  The salesman told me Vortex is now doing what Leupold used to do quality wise, and that the Viper was as good as a VXIII was.  OK, whatever... let me look.

The scopes looked quality made, clicked nicely and pretty much reminded me of looking through a Leupold VXII or III, except there seemed to be more of a fishbowl eye-box effect getting lined up.  Not much though and may have had something to do with where the parallax was set inside the store?  I'm sure for the money these are decent scopes, but to be honest the glass is not even close to my Trijicons.  I'm not putting down any brands and just relating what my eyes noticed.  It might be different for others and I'm no scope expert.  I also looked through a fancy Sig-Sauer scope- the new model that talks to their rangefinder.  All I will say is I handed it right back to the clerk!

Like I said before when I got a Leupold VX2 3-9X40 when they came out, I felt it was the best Leupold scope I had owned.  One of the brightest scopes I thought was the inexpensive Nikon Buck Master 3-9X40.  I soon learned that brightness wasn't everything after looking through my Trijicons and a used Zeiss Conquest 3-9X40.  When I compare the VX2 to the Zeiss, the VX2 actually looks brighter at dusk.  The Nikon even brighter!  But compared to the older Zeiss their images looked flat.  The Zeiss and Trijicon glass have more of a 3 dimensional look with full edge to edge clarity and depth creating contrast.  Plus the color of the Leupold suddenly looked yellow.  I once looked through a small NIghtForce and was blown away with the bright image quality!  Better scope glass has spoiled me, where at one time I was satisfied with your basic Leupold.  Most likely the Vortex HD glass is up there, but at this point I would have to actually look through one prior to purchase.

Because these technical scopes are new to me and by looking at the Vortex scopes today, may have pointed out a problem for me.  I kind of need readers these days and when I looked at the reticles, some of the small hash marks were difficult to see and I might not be able to see them at all in poor light conditions?  Perhaps it was because the reticle was not focused for me?  But if I can't see the markings, we'll that's out and would have to utilize dial up.  I'm surprised because I can clearly see the ballistic compensating lines in my VX2.  The ballistic reticle in the Vortex must be smaller?  Perhaps the Leupold VX-5 will end up being the right scope for me after all?  In general is far-sighted a problem with seeing such reticles?  

I'm glad I posted here before just jumping into a $1,000 scope.  Your input is quite helpful in my avoiding a purchase mistake.         
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2020 at 20:26
i own a vx5 and a vx6. I really like the illumination and the zero lock turrets. I have taken both of them to beyond 1000 yards and everywhere in between many times and my two samples track great.  I have several vortex scopes and also like them alot. But not those new hds. I also own several trijicon optics and really like them as well. 

As ILya says pick the one that has the features you desire the most. They will all be great choices. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2020 at 22:20
Originally posted by cabochris cabochris wrote:

Just got back from looking at some Vortex Scopes at local store.  They didn't have an HD.  The scopes they stocked ran $450 to $850.  Viper HST/PST tactical types.  The salesman told me Vortex is now doing what Leupold used to do quality wise, and that the Viper was as good as a VXIII was.  OK, whatever... let me look.

The scopes looked quality made, clicked nicely and pretty much reminded me of looking through a Leupold VXII or III, except there seemed to be more of a fishbowl eye-box effect getting lined up.  Not much though and may have had something to do with where the parallax was set inside the store?  I'm sure for the money these are decent scopes, but to be honest the glass is not even close to my Trijicons.  I'm not putting down any brands and just relating what my eyes noticed.  It might be different for others and I'm no scope expert.  I also looked through a fancy Sig-Sauer scope- the new model that talks to their rangefinder.  All I will say is I handed it right back to the clerk!

Like I said before when I got a Leupold VX2 3-9X40 when they came out, I felt it was the best Leupold scope I had owned.  One of the brightest scopes I thought was the inexpensive Nikon Buck Master 3-9X40.  I soon learned that brightness wasn't everything after looking through my Trijicons and a used Zeiss Conquest 3-9X40.  When I compare the VX2 to the Zeiss, the VX2 actually looks brighter at dusk.  The Nikon even brighter!  But compared to the older Zeiss their images looked flat.  The Zeiss and Trijicon glass have more of a 3 dimensional look with full edge to edge clarity and depth creating contrast.  Plus the color of the Leupold suddenly looked yellow.  I once looked through a small NIghtForce and was blown away with the bright image quality!  Better scope glass has spoiled me, where at one time I was satisfied with your basic Leupold.  Most likely the Vortex HD glass is up there, but at this point I would have to actually look through one prior to purchase.

Because these technical scopes are new to me and by looking at the Vortex scopes today, may have pointed out a problem for me.  I kind of need readers these days and when I looked at the reticles, some of the small hash marks were difficult to see and I might not be able to see them at all in poor light conditions?  Perhaps it was because the reticle was not focused for me?  But if I can't see the markings, we'll that's out and would have to utilize dial up.  I'm surprised because I can clearly see the ballistic compensating lines in my VX2.  The ballistic reticle in the Vortex must be smaller?  Perhaps the Leupold VX-5 will end up being the right scope for me after all?  In general is far-sighted a problem with seeing such reticles?  

I'm glad I posted here before just jumping into a $1,000 scope.  Your input is quite helpful in my avoiding a purchase mistake.         

A couple of comments: if the reticle is blurry and you see a fishbowl effect, chances are you did not adjust the eyepiece of the scope to your eye.  If that is the case, you wasted your time.

The salesman at the store is unlikely to know anything about riflescopes.  I have never seen anyone employed at a gun store who could spell optics.  There might be one out there somewhere, but I have not run into him.

Which exact Vortex scope did you see? There are different models and different product lines.  Was that HST? or PST? or PST Gen 2? Which magnification range?

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabochris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2020 at 18:01
PST.  I'm coming close on settling on the VX5. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabochris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2020 at 18:05
supertool73, thanks for your input.  Your positive comments on the VX5 assures it would be a good choice for me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabochris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2020 at 20:42
Well, this was tough, especially not being able to see the scopes in hand.  After going back and fourth between Trijicon and Leupold, I purchased a Leupold VX5 HD 3-15X44 CDS-ZL2 Fire Dot Duplex.  I really wanted the Trijicon Credo and came so close.  

I called Leupold and had a nice chat.  I mentioned I was choosing between Leupold and Trijicon.  No attermpt was made to sway me and I appreciated that.  The Gentleman answered all my questions.  In the end I chose the Leupold because it's 3 ounces lighter and a sun shade is available for it, where there is none available from Trijicon.  I simply do not understand why sun shades are not supplied/available for many Trijicon scopes?  There was more to making my choice, but those 2 were the final decision factors.

I was assured the VX5 tracked perfect and that the brightness at dawn and dusk are superb.  We also had quite the conversation about exit pupil and if a 44mm scope would do well for my intended purpose.  I recently read most adults eyes open to 4mm avg.  So do I really need a 50mm or 56mm Objective and in my case decided no.

If for some reason I'm not happy with the VX5, I can return it, but doubt that will happen.  I made quite a bit of this because I actually need a second scope.  I may get the same Leupold or another crack at the Trijicon?

Thanks for the input and help.  I'll try to leave my first impressions of the Leupold VX5.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2020 at 21:01
You made a good choice. Enjoy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2020 at 21:16
buy the aluma flip up caps for it. They are outstanding
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabochris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2020 at 15:02
Thanks for the Cap advice.  Which brings up another question/concern... Sun Shade?  Should I bother with the 3 inch Leupold shade or not?  Will the front cap fit on the shade end?  I've never hunted with a shade and the only problem I encountered was lens flare in a cheap scope years ago.

Some say they have shades on all their scopes.  Others say just another gadget and can cut down FOV.  So what are the opinions here on shades?  Are shades to be left on always, or only used as needed?  I'm wondering how use of a shade and lens caps effect each other?

I called Trijicon today because I'm still interested in their Credo HX 3-15X44, possibly for my semi-custom 300 RUM (I sold a couple rifles/stuff to cover 2 scopes) and while they were very helpful, couldn't give me a good reason no shade was offered by them for a $1,300 MSRP scope?     
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