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Leupold 3X rumors.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 08:28
wolfee View Drop Down
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I havent been very up to date with the discussions here lately.  One of your members just pointed out to me that they have heard Leupold might begin building the 3X M8 type scope again.  Does anyone have more recent info on this? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 09:13
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I hope that Leupold has put the M8 series to rest...............in a cemetery!!!   Bucky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 10:41
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If Leupold starts making a 3x again it will not be a M8, believe me. I have had a number of discussions with the Leupold people about future projects, and there is indeed some interest in possibly bringing out a new 3x. But at the moment interest is about all it amounts to.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 12:22
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 I'm the one wolfee had the discussion with about the 3x(I never mentioned M8,but no biggie!). I've read,on other forums,posts by people who had supposedly talked to Leupold reps at the SHOT show or at the factory about the 3X and were told that Leupold was aware and showing an interest in its reintroduction.  YEP,just an interest.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 12:24
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I didnt realize M8 was such a dreadful word around here.  I don't mean to imply the brand is being renovated, just that style--straight tube, no bell as on the old M8 in 3 power.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 12:52
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Personally I'm not anti-M8. I still have several on some of my rifles, and they work fine. They're not as bright as some newer scopes, and some people don't like friction adjustments, but they were very rugged scopes and had adequate optics for most hunting.

As a matter of the first time I hunted in Africa my PH had a 4x M8 on his rifle, a Sako .375 H&H. He loaned the rifle to clients from time to time, and consequently he had filed marks in both the windage and elevations dials and the edges of the turrets so he could turn the settings back afterward. The rifle always went back to shooting exactly where he wanted it to.
 
But Leupold has moved on beyond M8's now. If they did bring out a new 3x I strongly suspect it would have click adjustments and multi-coated lenses.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 13:19
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I have heard the 3x rumors floating around for some time now.  I am still not exactly clear why the little FX-II 2.5x20 is substantially different.  What can you do with a 3x that you can not do with a 3x?

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 13:21
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  Hey wolfee,my fault here! I should have said in my PM to ya that I was hearing of a modern version of the old 3X.  Honest,I'm not anti-M8 either. And M8 is definitely not a bad word around here.  In fact I've got my share of "good ole scopes".
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 13:35
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Ilya,
 
The 2.5x isn't all that different optically--but it's REALLY short.
 
A lot of the people prefer the 3x's for use on dangerous game rifles which often have very long actions, to accomodate cartridges from the .375 H&H on up. For instace, my longest-actioned dangerous game rifle is a CZ 550 Magnum in .416 Rigby. I can mount the 2.5'x on this rifle, but just barely. I have to put the front scope ring around the very end of the scope, in front of the lens. And with this rifle there is some leeway on where to place the rings, because they clamp to dovetails on the top of the action. With other rifles and mounts the 2.5x becomes impossible to mount.
 
The big virtue of the 3x was it's length, which made mounting easy on any rifle.
 
JB
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 13:56
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OK.  That makes a little more sense now.  So, from what you are telling me, Leupold should just make extend the tube a little bit more forward when the rename FX-II in to FX-2.  The amount of mass that adds is trivial.  If anything, that will help with some flare short scopes some times exhibit.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 14:46
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It looks too dorky with only a half inch of tube sticking out of the front mount.  Optically there is some advantage also.  A longer tube improves the depth of field at the short end.  My 10+ inch Weaver V4 is sharp all the way down to almost 15 yards and still perfect at infinity.  No parallex improvement just the focus of the image but parallex isn't a problem at 3X anyway in most situations.  btw, the only Leupold I ever owned worth what I paid for it was a M8 4x.  I have had some huge distortion issues with expensive Leupolds.  Their customer service is impeccable at fixing things but I would rather not have to fix them.  That's one of the reasons I like simple non variable scopes.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 15:01
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Moving the objective lens further forward would help with depth of field (making it a slower optical system), but what I meant was simply extending the tube forward a bit for a built in sunshade of a sort. 

There are some potential problems with mounting one of the rings right over the objective lens, but that is resolvable.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 15:17
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yes, I was just being facetious about M8s, seeing as how they were only single coated and were not bright at all---( I had a Weaver K4 Micro Trac that was way brighter than my M8 4X Leupold.....) 
 
I was very glad when Leupold finally decided to upgrade.  But, to Leupold, upgrading was like pulling teeth out of a chicken.....it sure took them a long time to really DO something....Bucky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 18:54
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ILya,

It's not quite that simple. These are very long actions, and one of the reasons hunters like the old 3x is that it is so long that the front lens can be placed in front of the front ring--AND the lens is mounted fairly deeply inside the front of the scope, reducing flare. The 3x Leupolds varied somewhat over the years, but in general were 2-1/2" to 3" longer than the the present 2.5x scope.

There is also the matter of customer perception. The people that would buy a new 3x Leupold do not want a slightly lengthened 2.5x. They want the old 3x, though they would be happy with improvements such as click adjustments and multi-coated lenses.
 
I've had many discussions with the Leupold people about this, and it also isn't as simple as just producing the older again. The tooling is long gone, which would be useless anyway with their present CNC production, and even the engineering blueprints have disappeared. Even if all that were available, the lenses they use these days are quite different, mostly because of the multi-coating.
 
However, if Leupold decides to go ahead with this I am certain the job will get done.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 19:34
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Perhaps it is indeed not that simple.  However, I have got to think that designing a fixed 3x scope that is pretty long to boot has got to be one of the simplest design tasks Leupold could undertake.  It boils down to whether they think there is enough demand for it.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 19:39
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   Sounds like it would be a BIG investment on Leupold's part. They'd sure have to sell ALOT of them to recoup their expenses. The money for the one I'd want sure wouldn't mean much.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 19:53
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ILya,

Demand, of course, is the biggie--complicated by the fact that the people who are really interested already tend to have several of the old ones!
 
JB
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 20:02
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One marketing issue Leupold should consider is that they would have the only full size 2.5X to 3X scope generally available at retail.  Everybody and their brother makes some pathetic 2X-87X, radioactive reticle, microchip controlled windage, 140mm objective, osmium plated optics type scope.  But, they would get ALL the business for my wished for 3X on a straight 10 inch tube.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 20:12
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Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

   Sounds like it would be a BIG investment on Leupold's part. They'd sure have to sell ALOT of them to recoup their expenses. The money for the one I'd want sure wouldn't mean much.


I do not think it would qualify as a BIG investment, since there would be a fair bit of part commonality as far as internal components go.  Lenses do not have to be especially high grade since for a low mag/high f-number system the requirements are not too strict.

The bigger problem is that for scopes like this, most people who keep on screaming about buying one, in reality, would not.

Perhaps, we can run a poll on who would be willing to put a 50% deposit on one (we can assume it will cost about as much as the 2.5x20), if John can talk Leupold into making it. 

I wonder how many people would be willing to vote with their wallets...

Perhaps, SWFA could have a special run made for them?

I recall there was some sort of a VX-II scope that there were only 300 or so made and SWFA was the only source for them.  If there is really enough demand for the 3x, perhaps something along those lines could be done here.

Chris or John, any thoughts on talking to Leupold about doing something like that?

ILya

I wonder how many people would actually be willing to put
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 20:39
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how much we talking...... I'd like to get one of those new Marlin guide guns in 45/70.  Would this scope be too long for it?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2009 at 21:09
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

how much we talking...... I'd like to get one of those new Marlin guide guns in 45/70.  Would this scope be too long for it?


I am just throwing out ideas here. 

I do not have enough clout to even TRY to pull this off with Leupold, but Chris and John might be able to.

Ultimately, I have no idea how much this scope would cost, but it should be in the same ballpark as FX-II scopes.

It should fit fine on the Marlin, but it would really be designed to go onto a Magnum (375H&H length presumably) action bolt gun.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2009 at 07:25
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I would spend up to $300 each and get 2 of them if they were made with premium optics, fit and finish--FX3 level.  They must be threaded to accept "raincoat" accessories, or better yet just supply the thing with the screw in lens caps.  And don't make the reticle too fat. This is part of the problem.  Too often the simple, low fixed power are only offered in a low quality range.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2009 at 07:41
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  Good idea ILya. I'm in if it happens. +1 w/wolfee but I would like to see at least a few reticle options. I'm big on the old Weaver post and crosshair reticle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2009 at 08:41
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300, just curious, did you buy a Leupold Alaskan 2.5X? (The reproduction of the old Lyman scope).  I'd like to have one except the 7/8" diameter makes Ruger mounting hopeless.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2009 at 09:40
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 Nope. Haven't ever seen one. You? I've got an El Paso Weaver in 2.5X and a Denver Redfield in 2.75X. I'm holding out for a modern technology,fixed low power(3X or less),long scope.
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