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Leupold 3-9 or Bushnell 4-16?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 22:41
rimfireguy View Drop Down
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Hello,

I have a Kimber .22LR on order and am considering what scope to put on it. I will be primarily using it to shoot ground
squirrels from ~30yds to as far as the gun and my ability warrants. I'm hoping this might be as far as ~75 yards. After doing
a fair bit of researching my options, my top two choices are the Leupold VX-II 3-9X33 rimfire EFR and the Bushnell Elite 4200
4-16X40. Both of these scopes have adjustable objectives for parallax correction. I know the Leupold is an entirely
appropriate choice, but is there any reason the Bushnell wouldn't be even better? With the Bushnell you can only go down to
4X, and not 3X like with the Leupold, but you gain the ability to go up to 16X while the limit on the Leupold is 9X. This
tradeoff seems more than worth it to me. It might take slightly longer to find the target with the 4X than with the 3X, but
accuracy is usually more important than time with ground squirrels. The reason I'm asking about the Bushnell is I haven't
heard of anyone putting this scope on a .22LR, but it isn't clear to me why it wouldn't work well.

Thanks for your time,

Squirrelman     
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 16:17
Steelbenz View Drop Down
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The bushnell would do fine.
The difference in light gathering at 3X with the 33, (11mm) is not an issue 4X with 40 (10mm). At best your eyes can only use a little over 5mm. It is more significant about the weight and size difference. The bushnell might have better glass also. But really it's your choice. You might PM Koshkin he could give you much more detail about the glass in both scopes.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 12:21
koshkin View Drop Down
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Elite 4200 has better glass than Leupold VX-II by a solid margin.  However, it is much bigger and heavier with the Leupy and I think it can change the balance of the rifle somewhat.  If you are OK with a larger scope, Elite 4200 is certainly a better choice.

I would also look at Sighton S2 3-9x36AO.  It is a more direct competitor to the Leupy.  It is still pretty small and light and certainly has better glass.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 20:53
RifleDude View Drop Down
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Welcome rimfireguy!

 

I have no experience with Sightron scopes, but I trust what Koshkin says and I've heard good things about them overall.  Based on the dimensions of their 3-9X36 scope, I wouldn't hesitate to give it a try, however the current specs on their website shows it to not have A/O.  Maybe A/O is a new option on this model.  They do have an S1 3-9 rimfire model, however.  Whatever you choose, I believe it's a crying shame to top a trim, handy little rimfire with a huge scope, especially a finely balanced one such as your Kimber.  Unfortunately, there are few really good scopes available these days that are well-suited for rimfires.  For whatever reason, most of the current "rimfire model" 50 yd parallax scopes are just cheap scopes.  Whatever you do, make sure you don't select a scope intended for centerfires, unless it has A/O allowing for parallax adjustments below 50 yds.  Most scopes are parallax adjusted for 100 yards/meters or more.  There's also the Burris 4.5-14X32 Short Mag, which is a very compact scope with A/O, but I have that scope on a rimfire, and I'm not impressed with its optics...at best, I'd describe it as "o.k."  I found it has considerable spherical aberration, extremely critical eye relief, and narrow FOV, but those are the tradeoffs with combining high magnification in a super compact model scope.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 22:28
koshkin View Drop Down
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RifleDude, Sightron S2 3-9x42 does not have an AO, but the S2 3-9x36 does.  On sightron website it would be listed under "compact scopes".  The old S2 3-9x36AO has been discontinued, but there is a new S2 Big Sky 3-9x36AO.  There should be some good deals around on discontinued models.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2007 at 14:56
rimfireguy View Drop Down
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Thanks to all for their informative replies. I will consider all that's been said carefully. One conclusion I had before I posted is
the one RifleDude confirmed for me which is that the ideal rimfire scope just doesn't exist. For higher end rimfires with very
good accuracy, it seems to "realize their potential" a variable power scope with a high end magnification in the 12X to 16X range
is necessary. But to get this, it seems you have to use an essentially centerfire scope with an adjustable objective whose parallax
can be set for rimfire distances. I would think that if one of these scope companies set out to make a high quality, as compact
as possible 4-12 or 4-16 for rimfires there just might be a niche for it. But given my options today, I'm leaning toward the
Bushnell 4-16 as it is only 7.6oz heavier than the Leupy 3-9 (18.6 vs 11oz) and I'm thinking the price paid in extra weight is
more than offset by the higher magnification. I've still got a month before my Kimber is due to mull it over.

rimfireguy

       
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2007 at 09:54
RifleDude View Drop Down
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Originally posted by rimfireguy rimfireguy wrote:

...as it is only 7.6oz heavier than the Leupy 3-9 (18.6 vs 11oz) and I'm thinking the price paid in extra weight is
more than offset by the higher magnification.
rimfireguy

       

 

Or, look at it this way, that's almost 1/2 pound.  My only issue with the Bushnell on a rimfire is it's so long and to me, just looks out of proportion to a fine rimfire, otherwise, I believe it is better optically than the Leupy.  I don't like a scope to dominate the rifle it's mounted on.  I also don't believe you need high magnification to realize the accuracy potential of a good rimfire within average rimfire distances, unless you plan to primarily shoot paper.  But that's just me.

 

I mourn the day Kahles discontinued the fine 2-7X36 rimfire model.  I think a premium rimfire like the Kimber deserves a high-end scope well suited to its short range applications.  I think the Bushnell would serve you well, but again, I'd just opt for a more compact scope and would take a hard look at Koshkin's recommendation if it were me.

 

Best of luck to you in your new rifle project!  Keep us posted!

 

Koshkin,

Thanks for the clarification on the Sightron.  I was looking at the wrong info there.  Based on all the good reports I've heard about these scopes' optics along with its specs, I believe I'd personally take the plunge on that very scope if I were rimfireguy.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2007 at 14:17
Chris in NorCal View Drop Down
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You may want to consider a non AO rimfire or shotgun scope. Some have the Parallax set down to 50 yards. They will be shorter, lighter and no dinking around with the AO when looking for squirrels darting around and popping their heads up and down their burrow. And it will greatly open the field of scopes to choose from.

 



Edited by Chris in NorCal
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2007 at 19:41
rimfireguy View Drop Down
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One relevant piece of information I haven't mentioned is that my hunting strategy for these ground squirrels will be sit and wait. I
will thus not be carrying the gun around all day, and I will be shooting from a tripod, table, or some other sort of rest. So given
these considerations I went ahead with the Bushnell 4-16. I got it a couple of days ago. I expect my Kimber by the end of the
month. If I'm not happy with the Bushnell, or if my hunting method changes to walk all day and shoot freehand, it's not as if I can't
always try a smaller scope like the Sightron that was recommended. But one thing that I am not clear on is why exactly does
everyone seem to accept the premise that it's OK to put a big scope on a centerfire rifle, but rimfire rifles should get small scopes. A
quick check of the weights of centerfire and rimfire rifles on Kimber's website indicates that are almost exactly the same. And
shooting a ground squirrel at 50 yards with a rimfire rifle takes approximately the same amount of skill and precision as shooting a
deer at 200 or so yards, so what's the difference?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2007 at 19:53
koshkin View Drop Down
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Just for the record, I do not think it is a good idea to put a bulky a scope on alight centerfire rifle either.  IMO, light and handy deer rifles like Kimber 84 are at their best with a trim 2-7x32 or something along those lines.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2007 at 23:39
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I shoot several 100 ground squirrels every year out of my WY pastures with a 22RF.( squirrels=badgers=dead horses) IMO for the effective range of 75, maybe 100 on a dead calm day, you don't need a big scope, or in fact a variable. I use an ancient (but very good) Kollmorgen 4x with a fine CH and 2 MOA dot on my TC 22rf semi. (It will shoot 10 into a dime @75). If I were going to buy new, I'd go for a small objective 6X. A fine handsome rifle like your Kimber should have a light trim scope. No longer made, but on my Cooper 22 is a Leupold Alaskan 6X (7/8"tube) that really compliments the rifle and is a fine scope as well.
As a last thought, if you have running rabbits too, go with a fixed 4.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 10:54
RifleDude View Drop Down
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I totally agree with the above comments about matching the scope to the rifle.  I don't like topping ANY rifle with a huge scope out of proportion to the lines of the rifle, because I want a scope to complement, not dominate the gun it's mounted on.  A huge scope relative to the rifle destroys its fine balance, specifically when shooting offhand, and it just plain negates the advantages a trim, light rifle offers to begin with -- handiness.  Additionally, there is no advantage to having high magnification on a hunting rimfire, because the slight added shooting precision potential you might gain is offset by additional bulk, cost, and often loss of FOV.  I personally care about how a rifle/scope combination looks and feels just as much as a scope's optical performance, on some rifles, even more so.  A riflescope is not a substitute for binoculars or spotting scope.  On most hunting rifles, I prefer low to mid powered variables, except for long range varmint rifles, which generally have thicker stock and barrel dimensions and are typically shot from a resting position of some sort, where a large, long, high powered scope isn't a liability.

Edited by RifleDude
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2007 at 15:07
pharrout View Drop Down
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Are you dead set on those 2 scopes? The Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40 with Ballistic Plex ret is a real treat. I have one on my Savage 93R17-BTVw* and it has to be one of the most wonderful pieces of glass I have looked through. It offers so very many things over the Leupold and Nikon scopes. Ofcourse it also has the *Forever Warranty*. IMO you cant go wrong with this scope and you may snag a free GPS/Spotting Scope or Binocular all of which are top quality.
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