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Lets talk Mk4 TMR and first focal planes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/26/2010 at 09:43
8shots View Drop Down
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Today I had my first range session with the new (to me) Mk4 TMR reticule and First Focal plane.
8,5-25 x 50
I own a Leupy8.5-25 x 50 with target turrets and Varmint reticule. So my observations are comparitive to this.
First impressions: Rugged and nice. Also nice big allan screws to lock the dials in place after zeroing scope. Even the AO dial can be zeroed with and allan screw. (target scope has teeniest little screws for this job)
The dials feel a little less "positive" then my scope. Mushy comes to mind, yet there are clear clicks. The power zoom ring feels a lot looser too.
 
Optics are good and no complaints. Mirage at 30 Deg centigrade degraded overall image somewhat.
 
Zeroing the scope was quick and easy. 3 shots and I was home and dry, no shift in impact after that.
 
Now for the reticule: I first focused it against the sky and it came up clear and black. The TMR is pure joy to useYippee.
I  placed 8 inch (200mm) steel gongs at 200 225 250 275 300 325 and 350m. (Our field shoot distances). The MR lines were easy to read.
I found the following (and in brackets the mathematical calculations)
200 = 1 mils (1)
225 = 0.9 (0.88)
250 = 0.8 (0.8)
275 = 0.7 (0.72)
300 = 0.7 (0.66)
325 = 0.6 (0.61)
350 = 0.5 (0.57)
 
I found the mils easy to work with and a lot more precise then the varmint. The reticule has at the extreme elevation and windage of the reticule a 0.2 mil graduation extensions to make the fine readings possible
I personally would have preferred these fine 0.2 mils at the center of the scope as one has to read the mils, then shift to aim.
 
Now for the first focal point. Not impressed and would not buy one. Not for my use anyway. If you are going to engage or read off targets 1 yds or so in size, all good and well. But it has no use on small targets of 1,5 ft (40 cm or so ).
The moment you turn the power to below 14x, the reticule becomes so small it has no practical use.
At 8,5 times I could hardly read 1 mil. The 2 mil etc was OK. Certainly to read .2 mils would be impossible.
So if one has a scope of say 14-40 zoom or something, first focal would keep the reticule large enough to read throughout the entire zoom. Below 10 x forget it.
 
Turrets and adjustment: This scope tracked like a dream!! Up down it did exactly as it was told, no backchat.
I also shot at all the gongs and dialed elevation as per my drop chart. I scored first hits all the way.
 
Million dollar question: Very nice scope. I will be happy with my changes to TMR, tactical turrets and SECOND focal plane!!
No doubt first focal has it uses and some members prefer it, but I would say it must be for deer or man sized targets when zooming into lower power and you still want to read the reticule.


Edited by 8shots - October/26/2010 at 10:04
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/26/2010 at 10:14
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good read 8's.  Nice report

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/26/2010 at 12:53
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Nice write-up, Wouter.

A couple of comment on FFP scopes: a reticle has to be properly designed for use in an FFP scope.  TMR, in my opinion is too thin for that.  It is generally a pretty fine balancing act to make reticle that is not too thin and not too thick.

I just spent some time with a few tactical scopes (and about to do a follow-up article) and IOR's MP8-A5 is very well designed, as is MilDot Gen2 in Premier.  Vortex's EBR-2 in the Razor is slightly thinner, but still very usable.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/26/2010 at 13:02
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FFP is indeed a delicate balancing act, especially with zoom ranges =/> 4X.  My IOR 2.5-10 FFP is on the very edge of unusable at 2.5 (it is more a rough sighting reference than it is a precise aiming point.)  Done well, they are great (Premier, Hensoldt, SS3-9 and SS1-4), done poorly, they suck.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2010 at 01:48
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In my shooting discipline we need to range small targets of 8 inches. When I initially purchased my scope the TMR was not available. All the guys with mildot scopes complained that the mildot was too course for ranging these small targets.
So I settled on a varmint reticule, which worked to some extent.
 
The old adage applies "horses for courses".
 
So I am not knocking first focal plane, simply saying that for my specific need the very fine TMR is problematic at low power. Because it is so fine the true benefits of a first focal actually counts against it for me.
 
Ideally I need a reticule with a 1, 0.8, 0.6 and 0.5 Mil circles around the intersection. I then just find the best fit and dial elevation....Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2010 at 08:31
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sorry off topic but--

NP-1RR-r090607_35NP-1RR: Varmint, Long-range hunting

The NP-1RR reticle is a ranging reticle, best suited for varmint and long-range applications. This easy-to-use reticle will enhance a shooter’s ranging abilities and long-range accuracy.

MAJOR FUNCTIONS:

• Easy ranging of the target in the field with no mathematical calculations.
• Quick and accurate compensation for wind drift and bullet drop.

The NP1-RR ranging scale works on the principle of known size of the target in inches. Targets are framed inside the circular elements of the reticle to quickly estimate the range of a target.

Examples:
• Deer average 18–20 inches from brisket to shoulder.
• Coyotes average 18–20 inches in height.
• Fox average 10–12 inches in height.
• Prairie dogs average 9–10 inches standing.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2010 at 09:18
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That seems to be the one!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2010 at 10:26
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I had that reticle and really liked it.  And, with a circle on paper at 100 yards (or whatever), you can customize exactly what you need it to be (by marking the power at which the circle is the size you need it to be at the range you want it to be..
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2010 at 05:54
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I love the TMR for rangefinding. Mine's in the 8.5-25x SFP Mk. 4. The .2 mil. lines make for some of the best reticle-rangefinding i've seen yet. Allows for ~ .02 mil accuracy for interpolating between lines.

 

Actually i like the finer lines at the end of the mil scale as they don't interfere with zeroing applications. In fact i would've been just as happy had the only put it in 2 of the quadrants instead of all 4 (upper and right or left).

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2010 at 08:03
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I shot in a comp this weekend with that danged timer ticking in the background. Try engaging 5 targets from three different positions (standing, sitting, and lying down) in 90 secs and still find time to range!!!
 
8 inch targets
 
Definately for me the .2 mils should be in the center, so aim, check size or mils covered, dial or hold elevation, aim. Boom. Next, aim, check mils covered, dial elevation, aim, boom.
 
Had me rattled!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2010 at 08:10
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So i take it you don't wanna tell us how you did?Bucky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2010 at 08:25
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I have 8.5-25x50 Mk4 illuminated 2nd focal Mil Dot on Pauls .308 I didnt care for the low end being 8.5 and feel that the 6.5-20 would have been a better choice or possibly the 4.5-14. The Tac scopes that I use on mine are Leu Mk4 3.5-10x40 FFP  the Super Sniper 10xHD and 3-9x42 FFP. I am not usually ranging targets that are smaller than 18 inches and I tend to like the FFP feature that you can use the mil dots for known hold over at any power like a balistic reticle that works at any power. Seldom do I find myself below 6x but lower powers certainly are a joke to think you could accurately determine fractions of a mil at to determine distance. Most of us have laser rangefinders that do the job most of the time but when it comes to flesh and bone targets at longer distances you often find that the laser will not pick them up and you are back to using the reticle.  I would love to have that NP1RR on a Nightforce for a varmit gun. Most of the MK4 stuff is geared toward enemy combatants rather than other types of shooting. I liked the feel of the covered target knobs Leupold makes better than the feel of the M1 knobs and the M3 knobs that I had on a Mk4 10x was too course of adjustment.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2010 at 08:41
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

So i take it you don't wanna tell us how you did?Bucky
 
NoCool
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2010 at 08:46
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I see it "should be" coming on another thread
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2010 at 11:44
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I have 8.5-25x50 Mk4 illuminated 2nd focal Mil Dot on Pauls .308 I didnt care for the low end being 8.5 and feel that the 6.5-20 would have been a better choice or possibly the 4.5-14. The Tac scopes that I use on mine are Leu Mk4 3.5-10x40 FFP  the Super Sniper 10xHD and 3-9x42 FFP. I am not usually ranging targets that are smaller than 18 inches and I tend to like the FFP feature that you can use the mil dots for known hold over at any power like a balistic reticle that works at any power. Seldom do I find myself below 6x but lower powers certainly are a joke to think you could accurately determine fractions of a mil at to determine distance. Most of us have laser rangefinders that do the job most of the time but when it comes to flesh and bone targets at longer distances you often find that the laser will not pick them up and you are back to using the reticle.  I would love to have that NP1RR on a Nightforce for a varmit gun. Most of the MK4 stuff is geared toward enemy combatants rather than other types of shooting. I liked the feel of the covered target knobs Leupold makes better than the feel of the M1 knobs and the M3 knobs that I had on a Mk4 10x was too course of adjustment.

For what it's worth, Wes (and this is a little off-topic), I am currently testing a Leupold scopes with M5 knobs and these probably have the best feel of any production Leupold I have seen yet.

ILya
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