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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2011 at 15:22
sierramk168 View Drop Down
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Looking at new scopes for a Remington 700 ADL .308 Winchester.  Usually ranging from 300 to 800 yards and looking for VERY accurate scope with VERY reliable quality.  And yes, before anyone asks...I have the $ for any of these.  I'm curious as to the feedback from all of you on who/what is the best:
 
Nightforce NF 8-32x56
Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50
Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 Police Marksman II LP
Leupold 30x40 FX-3 Silhouette
Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50 LR/T
Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50 ER/T
Swarovski PH 6-24x50 L
 
My biggest issue is that I have a "Remington" 4-12x40 scope now that came with the gun and after about 200-300 rounds, I am losing zero alot, have difficulties adjusting elevation / windage and then coming back to zero, etc, etc.  Basically, I see that I need a good quality scope that is intended to take the recoil of a .308.  I guess the springs inside this China crap are shot.
 
If anyone needs to know for evaluation purposes, I generally shoot under 1"MOA at 300 yards (although a lot more than that lately with the Rem scope).
 
Hopefully, the forum here can help me not spend a lot of dough for nothing.  Besides, I'd rather keep some more money for the bullets, cases, primers and powder.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2011 at 15:32
billyburl2 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
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Well if I had that kind of money MY personal choice would be...
Premier Heritage 3-15x50 Tactical 34mm RiflescopeIlluminated Gen II XRPremier Heritage 3-15x50 Tactical 34mm Riflescope
Stock # - PRH09034
  • Matte
  • First Focal Plane Illuminated Gen II XR
  • 34mm
  • Double-Turn 0.1 MRad (28 mrad of Elevation travel)
  • MTC Adjustments
  • Clockwise
  • Free Flip Open Lens Caps w/ Purchase
$3,013.00
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2011 at 16:12
ccoker View Drop Down
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you mentioned the ranges but not what you are shooting..
steel plates?
paper?
bench rest competition?
tactical matches?


if plates, I wouldn't go over 18 at the top end
if paper and you want to do tiny groups at a distance then higher magnification is good but it can have drawbacks with mirage and narrow field of view at the lower settings..

My LTR 308 will do .5 at 300 with my handloads and hold sub MOA out to 750 (doing head shots on a 5x5" target) with a 14.5x at the top end...


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2011 at 16:57
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http://swfa.com/Sightron-6-24x50-SIII-30mm-Riflescope-P48418.aspx

http://swfa.com/IOR-3-18x42-Tactical-35mm-Rifle-Scope-P8937.aspx

http://swfa.com/Vortex-5-20x50-Razor-HD-35mm-Rifle-Scope-P42753.aspx

In addition to the N/F, S&B, Swaro, and Premier I would also consider these. As for the Leupold.... IMO it's not even in the same class as the Sightron.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2011 at 19:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2011 at 19:55
sierramk168 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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With all reviews, sites and experts saying "you get what you pay for" and to spend a lot on the glass, I want to make sure I don't waste 1,000 two or three times when I can pay 2,000 or so once.
 
Shooting paper right now off bi-pod.  Nothing crazy.  Bringing back memories for me shooting longer distances when I can.  I am of course biased to S&B or Premier my self as well but, it's a little steep getting one when the G ain't paying for it.
 
Looks like the HD is the way to go?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2011 at 20:10
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
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the 5-25 PM2 S&B is a great scope (used one for a year).  Had Holland's ART Reticle
I have a Vortex Razor HD 5-20  with the MOA reticle
The Vortex PST Viper FFP with MOA reticle is one that I want to use.
I have a S-3 Sightron (plex reticle) and it is a good scope.  I want to get one of the new ones with the MOA reticle.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2011 at 21:20
billyburl2 View Drop Down
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This scope will save you a bunch of money, and the glass will surprise you. And it is built like a tank!
SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical RiflescopeMil-DotSWFA SS 10x42 Tactical Riflescope
Stock # - SS10X42HD
  • Matte
  • Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
  • .10 Mrad
  • HD Model
$799.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2011 at 00:38
Sparky View Drop Down
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Of you list.

Nightforce NF 8-32x56 Nice scope but just too much magnification that you will more than likely never use. I have one and rarely use it above about 22x. I have it on my 50BMG since it is a very good scope and rated for 50cals plus I got it for $800. But if I had to pay full price I would not have one.

Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50 Good scope I have several and am very pleased with them.

Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 Police Marksman II LP What can I say, an excellent scope.

Leupold 30x40 FX-3 Silhouette Leupold is just not in the same class as these other scopes.
Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50 LR/T
Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50 ER/T

Swarovski PH 6-24x50 L Another excellent scope.

I would also add a Nightforce 3.5-15x50, a Zeiss 6-24 and a US Optics 3.2-17 to the list.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2011 at 01:35
8shots View Drop Down
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I shoot a 308 Win with a Leupold 8,5-25 x 50 LRT. I have used the Mk4 equivalent in First Focal and liked it. I have just had my scope fitted with tactical turrets and a TMR reticule.
I shoot at 8 inch gongs and life size animal targets out to 400yds. (And we shoot as close as 50yds)
 
Most of our top shooters have gone the magnification route and have opted for the Nightforce 8-32.
 
Do yourself a favour and go for the biggest magnification. You need never use it. There are stops inbetween the 8-32. In other words you can set it on 9x, 12x, 15X 22X (get my drift).
 
Not picking a fight but I find it strange that people say 32X or 25X or 15X is too much magnification on a variable scope. You CAN turn it down and use less. But it IS there when you want it. And shooting target you will want it. On a variable scope you need to consider the bottom number, not the top number. In other words is 8x to much for you for close work?
I shoot my 8,5X at 50 yds no problems.
 
So my money will go to the Nightforce 8-32.


Edited by 8shots - April/06/2011 at 01:40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2011 at 14:09
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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Originally posted by sierramk168 sierramk168 wrote:

Looking at new scopes for a Remington 700 ADL .308 Winchester.  Usually ranging from 300 to 800 yards and looking for VERY accurate scope with VERY reliable quality.  And yes, before anyone asks...I have the $ for any of these.  I'm curious as to the feedback from all of you on who/what is the best:
 
Nightforce NF 8-32x56
Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50
Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 Police Marksman II LP
Leupold 30x40 FX-3 Silhouette
Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50 LR/T
Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50 ER/T
Swarovski PH 6-24x50 L
 
My biggest issue is that I have a "Remington" 4-12x40 scope now that came with the gun and after about 200-300 rounds, I am losing zero alot, have difficulties adjusting elevation / windage and then coming back to zero, etc, etc.  Basically, I see that I need a good quality scope that is intended to take the recoil of a .308.  I guess the springs inside this China crap are shot.
 
If anyone needs to know for evaluation purposes, I generally shoot under 1"MOA at 300 yards (although a lot more than that lately with the Rem scope).
 
Hopefully, the forum here can help me not spend a lot of dough for nothing.  Besides, I'd rather keep some more money for the bullets, cases, primers and powder.

From personal experience:

1.  I hate optics over 20X unless the shooting will be long, long range.  (800 isn't long, long range.)
2.  I don't buy Leupold, too many other great options, and most cost less.
3.  Nightforce makes a great scope, their glass is serviceable but not the very best (but I hear that will be changing soon.)  Their machanicals are among the very bet in the industry.
4.  I would take the Premier over the S&B, without hesitation.
5.  Though I haven't used the Razor 5-25, I know a few who have and wouldn't put it in quite the same league as S&B and Premier (as price would indicate.)
6.  The best scope I own is a Hensoldt 3-12, balls-out accurate, best eye box I have ever used, best glass I own (only slightly better than Premier, but slightly better in color - same in contrast.)
7 Nightforce is the "best buy", Hensoldt is the top of the heap, but you pay for it.  Vortex Razor ain't bad, Premier is second only to Hensoldt in optical quality (and not by much.)


At this level, you are spending significantly more money for marginal incremental increases in capacity and/or quality.

For a bargain, buy Nightforce, for "best of the best", buy Hensoldt or Premier.

Take the Swaro off the list.  Great glass, but "one of these is not like the others."
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2011 at 14:37
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+1
Amen!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2011 at 17:07
ccoker View Drop Down
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I can't wait to get the Premier Light Tactical 3-15x50
I think that is going to be a killer scope
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2011 at 17:21
koshkin View Drop Down
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Naturally, the choice depends on what you decide to spend.

Under $1000: Sightorn S3 6-24x50 or 8-32x56

Under $2000: Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50 (I am currently a version of it with a redesigned eyepiece and it rocks)

Price no object: I am partial to Premier and Hensoldt.  With high magnification models, Premier is FFP, while Hensoldt is SFP.  Pick what works for you.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2011 at 19:52
sierramk168 View Drop Down
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Nice.  The Jedi has spoken!
 
Thanks all for the advise, albeit a little different from some, mostly it was directed to one way. 
 
I am working on getting either a NF NXS 5.5-22x50 or SB PMII 5-25x56.  I really appreciate the opinions and leads for others.  Honestly, I did weigh them all piece by piece and feature by feature but, as som many here put it...you just can't go wrong with either of these two (especially the NF for the money). 
 
If I can deal the SB below $1,800 it will be the one.  If not, the spread won't justify not getting the NF in my mind (and it looks like most of yours as well).
 
May all of your penetrations go deeply and all your loads be true!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2011 at 16:57
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Originally posted by ccoker ccoker wrote:

I can't wait to get the Premier Light Tactical 3-15x50
I think that is going to be a killer scope

I am getting one fore review in a couple of weeks.

I'll let you know how it goes.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2011 at 22:43
ccoker View Drop Down
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Cool, I have on on order too
I think this is going to be one hot scope
Also have  USO 3.2-17x44, EREK, ERGO, GAP reticle due soon


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2011 at 00:48
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Heinsoldt would be my first choice and U.S. Optics would be my second choice.  Rancid Coolaid has owned most of the really top end tacticals so you wont go wrong following his advise.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2011 at 09:31
ccoker View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Heinsoldt would be my first choice and U.S. Optics would be my second choice.  Rancid Coolaid has owned most of the really top end tacticals so you wont go wrong following his advise.


yep, clearly he makes way too much money :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2011 at 19:45
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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Sometimes life depends on the first round hitting the mark, sometimes not.

I value my life too much to put a bargain scope on a "life or death" gun.

In the end, no deer rifle scope needs to rise to that level, these are not deer rifle scopes we are discussing.

My preference is Premier and Hensoldt.  I had a problem with a Hensoldt and have been spending more time behind the premier lately - and have fallen in love again with the 3-15 Premier with Gen2 mil dot, it is an amazing piece of gear.  The Hensoldt still wins (by the narrowest of margins) on eye box, but my Premier has been banged around and has yet to let me down.

This is a confidence game, and mine is in Premier.

For the original poster, be aware that S&B and NF are worlds apart.  If you can get a real PM2 for $1800 (and you trust the seller to be giving you the deal he claims), buy it.  Sometimes deals 'too good to be true" are, I hope that isn't the case with your deal.

Both are entirely serviceable, glass in the S&B is dramatically better.  And that damned turning ocular still bugs me on the NF.  If you've got the coin, Premier and hensoldt are the top of the heap; if you can't drop $3k, NF will not let you down.

Lastly, buy what allows you to put the most rounds down range.  No scope can (or should) replace range time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2011 at 20:04
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Rancid...I couldn't agree more.  To not confuse anybody, I don't shoot any animals.  They haven't done anything to me so I don't to them.  That doesn't say that I don't know how important a scope needs to be when one shot is all you have or people pay the consequence.
Now...I am merely trying to put a hole in a piece of paper again from 1000 yds away.  I agree about the Premier, and the Hensoldt.  They are the best.  I also have spent time behind a S&B as well so know how good they are too.  Never looked through a NF though and have not seen the other ones I was writing or hearing about here.  It's been a while for me so I was bowing to the experts here.
For the S&B, it's up to $2,600 with a few minutes left so as far as I can trust those here and see, the NF will be the better deal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2011 at 20:11
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RC's words are as much wisdom as you will ever find.  

I've tried and tried to purchase a Nightforce... just have not ever been able to justify it to myself.  Yes, it's tough, tough enough, everthing works, glass is "adequate".  I've never liked adequate... to me, that word signifiies "just barely good enough"... but that's just me.  
I've never used a Premier, can't speak to it, but I've been "in love" with Hensoldts since 1989.  S&B... pretty much an "old reliable".  You can pretty much never go wrong with S&B.  

I don't care how good the glass is, if you "glass up" to the point you can't afford to spend time behind it, it hasn't done you a bit of good.  Trigger time can make up for a lot of optics deficiencies.  Adequate DOES mean "good enough"...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2011 at 08:45
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If it is pure paper punching, get the NF and spend what is left on ammo and range time.

If you never put an S&B or Premier or Hensoldt side-by-side with the NF, you will be pleased with the NF glass.  Kinda like driving a BMW, then driving a Ferrari: the beemer is fast and nice, but once you've driven the Ferrari, the shine is off the BMW forever.

Get the NF.


Shoot.  Allot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2013 at 09:03
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Why all the hating on Leupold? I know great shooters who could buy any scope on the market, and they depend on Leupold. Not saying there are not better scopes for different applications, but this man was talking 800 yards or less, and the Leupold is totally more than sufficient for that. I might add that more people better be buying American, if this country is to succeed.
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