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Lesser priced scopes, why?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 07:46
eurolynn View Drop Down
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I am not trying to stir up any crap, and this IS NOT A SLAM ON ANY seller.  But when it comes to scopes we (as hunters/shooters), know are less than desirable (read as suck) scopes, why do they carry and sell them at all?  Like Barska, BSA, Tasco.

 

Would it not benefit them to carry the better of more quality to assure good sales, and repeat customers?

 

I did not start using scopes, until 1993.  Until then my eyes were pretty danged good, so I had a lot of learning to do about rifle scopes.  And being in Germany, all the Germans ever said was Zeiss!  Zeiss, Zeiss und Zeiss!  I didn't have (still don't) the money for that stuff.

 

So, I bought a BSA, through the mail, I read excellent reviews about them in gun rags (before I learned it was to please sponsors).  It never got mounted.  From the box, it had something oozing from the front objective lens.  I sent it back, they returned it with a new one.......it had a broken cross hair, tossed it in the trash.

 

My next to last Tasco purchase was pretty good.  I got one of the Japanese MAG IV scopes, it was great for punching paper.  My next purchase of a Tasco was after they went to China, (I did not know about the change) and it was just like the BSA.

 

So I finally got a Burris Fullfield, 3.5-10x  50mm.  That was a scope!  Germans tried to get me to sell it to them!  But a nephew inherited it for his Savage 110.

 

But had I known beforehand what were the suckky scopes (see paragraph 1), and what were the bargains (Burris Fullfield) for us financially challenged people, I would have saved a whole lot of money! 

 

Once again, this is a QUESTION, not an attack.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 08:13
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Good question.... worse still is that the "salesman" behind the counter will endorse it.
 
Only answer is that a sucker is born every minute.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 09:54
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Profit is not a dirty word.

People carry and sell BSA, NCStar etc because they can sell them cheap and still make money. People buy them because they don't know they are not getting something decent as with most who buy them it's their first scope. "so it's better than what they could see open sighted" 


Most of us have tried lesser scopes in the name of saving a buck or 2, but learn that you do indeed get what you pay for in optics. 


I hunt with a guy that uses nothing but Leapers, and every year he makes good shots on animals and puts meat in the freezer. He appreciates the better glass on some of the other guys rigs, but can't justify spending more than he absolutely has to. I think with the right gear he'd be capable of shooting at some really impressive distances, but as a hunter he will not shoot at something he can't see pretty well. I gave him and older Bushnell Trophy when I upgraded and he's thrilled with it, as it's better than the Leapers he was using, but he's not in a position to go out and buy better stuff.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 10:02
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I think because some people just want a cheapo scope.  They want to buy a $300 rifle and buy a $50 scope and thats good enough for them.  They probably only shoot 10 rounds a year for deer hunting and that is it.  I have had several $50 that would hold zero and my dad used a $30 Tasco on his .243 for over 30 years and it held zero and never gave him a problem.  The glass was very subpar, but it held zero, held up, and he killed a lot of deer with it over the years.

I agree once you have had a nicer scope, using a cheap scope is hard to do.  I just think that some people want to spend a minimal amount of money to go out hunting once or twice a year and thats all they need is a cheap scope. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 10:06
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I think more people carry them cause there is simply still gonna be your folks that are to cheap to buy quality....or simply can't afford better.   Also some brands do have a decent scope but you can't just carry that one line.  Or even have a mother company, Example, BushnellPerformanceOptics.com  They are the mother company for lots of subsidiaries, Bushnell and tasco included.  it could be that BPO said you have to carry our tasco line to carry our Bushnell line.  and the price point and profit margin makes it worth dealing with it sometimes.  Same goes with other companies too. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 10:30
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I often wonder why more stores selling scopes dont carry the scopes I consider best value decent scopes like the 3-9  and 4-16x40  Bushnell 4200 and the Leupold fixed 6x42  and how about a fixed 2x the only one I can think of is a spendy Trijicon compact ACOG or an aimpoint, cant someone make a traditional optic fixed 2x with a long enough tube for long dangerous game cartridges and there is a lot of other stuff it could be used on like slug guns etc.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 10:36
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Some folks - like my father-in-law, just don't consider scopes very important and will mount a Tasco on an $850 Ruger. As for vendors selling them, as long as there is a market, they might as well. Sure, the scopes suck, but maybe if the buyer realizes that and has established a relationship with the vendor, he will come back for a better scope. This is especially true for those of us who get more involved in shooting or demand more from their rigs.

Another thing to consider is that there are (relatively) inexpensive scopes that will do a perfectly decent job, particularly for shooting out to no more than 250-300 yards. I would bet that most any fixed 4X scope over $150 will meet most hunters' needs quite well. Of course there are some who will put that same amount into a ridiculous item like this:


(Ooooooh! Stealth Tactical. Are those snakes on that big plastic wheel?)


Edited by jonoMT - April/21/2010 at 10:38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 10:50
neilbilly View Drop Down
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LOL Jono

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 10:56
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  Wes,I can APPRECIATE your wanting of a long 2x scope.  The last one I can remember is the now discontinued Weaver Classic 2.5X which, luckily ,I bought one of.  It measures 10" which is within an inch of my El Paso K-2.5 and my Denver Redfield 2.75X.  I did just by an M8 2.5 Compact which is only 8.5" but can be made to work.  Guess the only new one out there now is the 2.5x Leupold Ultralight @ 8.5". 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2010 at 13:39
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I think there are more people out there than we want to admit that pick up a rifle, put a cheap scope on it,  have some guy they don't even know boresight it, and just go hunting. Rifle loonies would never have it that way, but to the less enthusiasic hunter who goes out into the field once a year, or shoots his deer from the window of his pickup at 50 yards, they don't care what kind of scope is on there. If you ask Chris why they sell the lower priced scopes, I'm sure he'd tell you. MONEY. I'll bet you he sells lower end scopes 10 to 1 over anything over $500, and that's where a lot of the money is made. Many people just don't want to, or can't spend the money that us optic crazy people do.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2010 at 11:30
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You can find inexpensive scopes that out perform some of the big names.However if you see a Barska,BSA,Ncstar steer clear.Many of the scopes are made in China and some happen to be a decent scope.I think you can't go wrong with any of the Japanese scopes.Tasco did have a few scopes that were made in Japan that outperformed some of the American scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2010 at 17:23
rogn View Drop Down
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All that I can add to this discussion is that some of these optics are adequate beyond what we beleive. I recently purchased a Savage short action in 7wsm(mostly for the stainless wsm) on line for a vry good price. It came with a Simmons scope mounted, and I thought i can use this on a .22 or simply destroy it with a springer pellet rifle. But since I couldnt wait I went ahead and fired the little thing up and much to my amazement the combo produced sub MOA groups at 100 and again at 400 yd.  The optics are adequate under adequate  lighting. the mechanics and repeatability  are really very good. and unlike the dealers profesy the silly thing didnt disintegrate on the little 7 mag.  so I guess there those who hunt and shoot who cant become the elite, but have the need for adequate optics. These less costly options are all they can or are willing to deal with. I guess the dead horse Im beating is the idea that I love good optics and can afford some good ones, but I do fear becoming an eletist, and so belittleing those who cant aford or are unwilling to invest in the land of diminishing returns. The shooting sports need to be self sustaining-dont drive fledglings away. Sorry my $0.02 and $0.02 and $0.02.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2010 at 17:43
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Some of the old CHEAPO brands are not bad.  Especially, in the old days ( Dale Clifford will need a drink!!   Laugh  I'm talking about The Olden Days again!!!!   Roll on Floor Laughing)   I have had good Tascos and Simmons.  They were made in Japan. 
 
Sometimes I cringe at the cost of good optics.  I could buy another Gun for that!!!!    Shocked
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2010 at 17:44
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There are quite a few rather inexpensive scopes out there that seem to hold up quite well and are likely good enough for a lot of people, especially if you "set and forget": sight in and never touch the knob otherwise.

The glass may not be very good and the adjustments may not be repeatable, but if the scope holds zero to within a "minute-of-deer" it is good enough for a staggeringly large number of people out there.

Bottom line is that the proof is in the pudding: if there was no demand for these scopes, all the retailers would not be stocking them.  By the same token, if retailers were getting too much grief from selling all the inexpensive scope, they would stop.

Looking at from a different angle, since these scopes are so inexpensive, there is comparatively little downside to stocking a few here and there.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2010 at 18:20
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You hear in many stores (3X9 scope is a 3X9 scope why pay $400 when you can get one for $29. They are both the same power) If they sell 10 $40 scopes to 1 $400 they will = the same $ sales. Sell a $40 scope and if it don,t work sell A $129 scope next year then another and another... Then sell another rifle because now thats the blame. Sell the $400 scope and it will usually last a lifetime on the same rifle. Poor quality = more repeat sales over time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2010 at 20:55
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Most rifle owners I know only shoot their rifles at anything other than a live target, when go to the range just to fire a handful of shots to be sure the scope is still dialed in.
Precise shooting is not their thing, putting a nice rack in the bed of the truck to show of is.
A middle of the pack Leupold is considered a "high end" optic in my neck of the woods, and thats for the big spenders.
In conclusion, there will always be a market for so called junk.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2010 at 05:28
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 I like probably a few others on here am retired on a fixed pension, but I still love to buy and shoot rifles, then put them away and try another. Recently I tried my hand at putting together Savage parts to make complete rifles, starting my second one next week. I can tell you up front it is getting an Intensity 3.8-12x44 because it is in the cabinet and for now it is what funds allow for. After buying the parts or a new gun for that matter it is either use what I have or buy a decent cheapy or put the gun away until funds come around for something better. I would rather try it out.
 I would love to be able to replace the cheaper stuff with Trijicons or the new SS stuff but that is out of the question unless I hit the lottery. I sure that is the reason many people buy the "package guns" because everything is in the box to go and shoot it at a reasonable price and it will perform at a decent level for its intended use.
 I don't buy into the " scope should cost at least what the rifle does or more theory", I believe if it works use it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2010 at 09:04
eurolynn View Drop Down
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rjtfroggy wrote: 
I don't buy into the " scope should cost at least what the rifle does or more theory", I believe if it works use it.

I couldn't agree more!  But my basic question and point was/is:  Why would a seller even bother selling a scope he/she knows it will probably break after 20 rounds? 

I am not talking about the past, I am talking about modern times.  For example, I would not take a BSA, Barska,Tasco or Leapers if you gave it to me for free.

When I take a trip to Cabela's or Bass Pro, or even Wally World, and I see some poor soul, I almost beg them not to buy the blister packed Tasco in their hand, as they are standing in line.  I suggest they wait and save a bit more money. 

If he or she has something that is hit or miss, I will tell them.  But (Yes I do this) I actually tell them to check out the Samples list, and SWFA main page. 

I learned most of your average Joe's haven't a clue that a Bushnell Sportsman is nowhere near the quality of an Elite.  One guy actually told be "I thought all of their scopes were the same"


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2010 at 13:09
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 Like it was said before PROFIT MARGIN  retailers probably make more selling 10 blister pack scopes than 1 good scope. Money is the answer to all of it, they are in business to make it not sit on something for a month and hope it sells. Bills have to be paid employees have to be paid and a lot of sales people work on comission plus so they will do what it takes to make a sale.
 Also advertizing the better known scopes sell better. I also think the better scopes could be sold for less but those manufactors want a larger margin with less sales, look at SWFA they sell a very good product at a reasonable price and I would bet they have outstanding sale numbers, they could all do it they just rather not.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 08:28
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the important thing here is that people get out and shoot, and have fun. retailers wouldn't carry them if someone wasn't buying. alot of people don't live with their guns and shoot/play with them everyday but want something to go out this weekend with the kids. I think its great that such an array of products are available.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 11:13
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I had been waiting for Obama to do a cash for clunkers with rifle scopes, but it just didn't look like it was happening so I started upgrading on my own. Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 11:15
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Originally posted by neilbilly neilbilly wrote:

I had been waiting for Obama to do a cash for clunkers with rifle scopes, but it just didn't look like it was happening so I started upgrading on my own. Big Grin

they would probably tack on a tax increase to your income for every scope you turned in too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 11:32
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True that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 15:11
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I can get by with cheaper glass on most of my stuff. I keep an eye out for sales like the 3-9 Burris Timbeline and the Nikon Primos, the new Redfield, Weaver models ect.
 
 It's one thing when a scope goes bad 15 minutes away from home hunting and a total different thing on a big $$$$ hunt acoss the country or out of it.
 
 If I were to travel or pay for a hunt I'd step up in my choice of optics and likely have spares.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 16:29
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I think because some people just want a cheapo scope.  They want to buy a $300 rifle and buy a $50 scope and thats good enough for them.  They probably only shoot 10 rounds a year for deer hunting and that is it.  I have had several $50 that would hold zero and my dad used a $30 Tasco on his .243 for over 30 years and it held zero and never gave him a problem.  The glass was very subpar, but it held zero, held up, and he killed a lot of deer with it over the years.

I agree once you have had a nicer scope, using a cheap scope is hard to do.  I just think that some people want to spend a minimal amount of money to go out hunting once or twice a year and thats all they need is a cheap scope. 
I think you hit it, supertool, to some people- it's just good enough for them.  I work with a guy that wants to shoot during the deer season, hit his deer and then the equipment goes into the closet after that, never to be seen till next season...
Me, on the other hand, if all the bullets don't go into the same hole, Iam trying to figure it all out.... Bullets, scope, wind, rifle, etc.   I gotta know why they all did not go into the same hole....Whacko
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