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Leica, uhhh.....Service?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/31/2013 at 18:48
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For all you guys that start whining every time I say something negative about Leica............

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7590930/6
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/31/2013 at 20:43
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So your point is what? It appears this was just another oppotunity for you to try and dog leica again. Who cares? Why do you feel the need to constantly push this?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/31/2013 at 21:15
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Public Service Announcement Big Smile.  Lighten up ST, it ain't that big a deal is it?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 01:55
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It sure seems to be to you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 04:27
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So the what did he expect he damaged the lenses, so he can't expect Leica to foot the bill. I had the same issue lent my Trinovid to a freind during a hunt, and got it back with two scratched lenses. He reckons he left them in the Farm owners vechile and didn't use them, so not his fault they are damaged. Farm owner says he didn't touch them, so not his fault.

Contacted Leica Agents in SA they told me it isn't covered by the warranty but they can replace the lenses, but it has to be sent to Germany at my cost. Sent a courier to fetch it informed me when it was back, what the cost was and sent it back to me by courier. Two months and the Bino was back good as new, cost me R2000 to fix it and I couldn't be happier with their CS department. Needless to say I don't hunt with that bloke anymore and don't lend my Binoculars to anyone anymore, my policy now is if you need Binos buy the bloody things.

I bet I can find lots of people who will criticize just about every company under the sun, but I can't say a bad thing about Leica. They make a top notch product and my expeirence with their CS department was excellent

Edited by Glock - April/01/2013 at 04:32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 06:31
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Originally posted by Glock Glock wrote:

So the what did he expect he damaged the lenses, so he can't expect Leica to foot the bill. I had the same issue lent my Trinovid to a freind during a hunt, and got it back with two scratched lenses. He reckons he left them in the Farm owners vechile and didn't use them, so not his fault they are damaged. Farm owner says he didn't touch them, so not his fault.

Contacted Leica Agents in SA they told me it isn't covered by the warranty but they can replace the lenses, but it has to be sent to Germany at my cost. Sent a courier to fetch it informed me when it was back, what the cost was and sent it back to me by courier. Two months and the Bino was back good as new, cost me R2000 to fix it and I couldn't be happier with their CS department. Needless to say I don't hunt with that bloke anymore and don't lend my Binoculars to anyone anymore, my policy now is if you need Binos buy the bloody things.

I bet I can find lots of people who will criticize just about every company under the sun, but I can't say a bad thing about Leica. They make a top notch product and my expeirence with their CS department was excellent
Good post, Glock.  Companies like Leica send out tens of thousands of products with relatively few complaints.  Leica is an excellent company with an excellent record.
 
JGRaider... get off the soapbox... at least on OT.  Your displeasure with Leica is seen and noted.  Your "PSA's" are NOT... cease fire.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 06:56
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Thank you for the kind words Kickboxer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 07:31
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Geez, over 10 pages of stupid, all I had to do was read the first three posts. Regardless if they were gray market or bought from an authorized dealer what do you expect when you scratch the lenses, of coarse they're not under warranty. The guy's lucky they were willing to work with him and offered to knock 20% of the price. I see nothing wrong with what Leica did. If there's more to the story, who cares, this was a silly thread linked to a worse one; I suspect there was a hidden agenda.

Glock, I would venture to say your experience parallels most who deal with companies with very good customer service. I'm glad I own some of their products. It was a good post!


Edited by mike650 - April/01/2013 at 07:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 08:07
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:


JGRaider... get off the soapbox... at least on OT.


Thank you very much!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 08:18
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The OP in that thread specifically stated he bought a gray market bino. That's the problem here, plain and simple. Although Leica or any other company has no obligation to fix something that was clearly abused by the owner (the scratched lenses) and therefore not the fault of the mfg, they would have fixed the lenses for free had he purchased the bino under normal retail M.A.P. agreement pricing from an authorized dealer within the US distribution network under their Passport warranty. Leica's US warranty applies ONLY to optics purchased through the normal US distribution network. The big NY camera dealers specifically state in their advertising when they are selling gray market items, as reflected in the price. Anytime you see a significantly discounted price on brand new optics, you're very likely buying a gray market item and you should be suspicious. The same situation applies to many other consumer goods like camera equipment, electronics, etc.

The situation would have been no different with Swarovski or Zeiss. Both of those companies also refuse to honor the warranty on gray market items. This is nothing new. When you knowingly buy a gray market optic, you roll the dice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 08:19
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Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Geez, over 10 pages of stupid, all I had to do was read the first three posts. Regardless if they were gray market or bought from an authorized dealer what do you expect when you scratch the lenses, of coarse they're not under warranty. The guy's lucky they were willing to work with him and offered to knock 20% of the price. I see nothing wrong with what Leica did. If there's more to the story, who cares, this was a silly thread linked to a worse one; I suspect there was a hidden agenda.

Glock, I would venture to say your experience parallels most who deal with companies with very good customer service. I'm glad I own some of their products. It was a good post!


Thanks Mike650,Im glad I have a pair if the binoculars as well, they really are excellent.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 08:47
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Haven't heard this much whining since the elementary PTA meeting.  I could care less what people buy.   Obviously nobody read the whole thread, full of other examples.  Carry on. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 09:11
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I could care less what people buy.   


If that were true, you would stop complaining and whining about Leica every single time they are brought up.  Sometimes you bring them up on your own, and then try to act all neutral and act offended when people question you on it.  It is the same story over and over again.  Once again, we get it.  You don't like their CS.  Others of us have used it and have been extremely happy with them.  just let it be, the Leica trolling is getting old. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 09:30
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I could care less what people buy......just the way it is. Whether you like it or believe it bothers me none, zero, nada.  I've been blessed and can buy whatever I want.  Just to be clear internet BS doesn't offend me.  Only important stuff is potentially offending, and optics isn't important stuff to me.  I buy the products I trust, and Leica ain't one of them because they're too inconsistent.   Any open minded person can see that.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 09:52
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Again, the same old story.  Give it two weeks and you will bring this up again and we will all be having the same exact argument again.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 09:55
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I buy the products I trust, and Leica ain't one of them because they're too inconsistent.


How many Leica products have you purchased in your lifetime?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 10:10
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4 in my lifetime.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 10:15
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

4 in my lifetime.


And all four were defective samples?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 10:17
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Only 1, plus the replacement was a piece of crap.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 10:21
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I read the whole thread, JG... before you posted it here, in fact.

Still doesn't change the fact the OP purchased a gray market item and had to pay for repairs to damage he caused... as clearly stated in Leica's warranty policies. I correctly pointed out that both Zeiss and Swarovski have the same policies with regards to gray market items. This is nothing new. Buyer beware.

Yes there were other examples in the thread where people said they got screwed by Leica's CS. One example involved a rangefinder (which has a lesser warranty, as is the case for all electronic items, not just from Leica, but also Zeiss and Swaro) that was dropped. The other example was a worn/damaged/defective worm drive in a binocular focuser. Was the rangefinder still under warranty when the damage occurred? On the focuser, was the problem really due to a mfg defect, or were they simply replacing a part with an improved version? Leica improved the feel of their focusing mechanics in later binos, but that doesn't necessarily mean previous versions were "faulty." In both cases, we don't know the specifics of the items in question, how the specific damages may or may not have been covered by warranty, or whether the people in question had an axe to grind, etc. We only have their word to go on. Yes, I know, you can find numerous other examples on the bird and hunting forums. I can search and find examples of unhappy people with any other brand that you think highly of, including Swaro and Leupold. So what? Your mileage may vary.

The issue people have with your post isn't whether or not someone has a legit beef with Leica; it's that, given your post history on the subject of Leica, you seem to have an agenda. You have an obvious hard-on for Leica. Anytime someone has a bad opinion of Leica in any way, you jump on it with great zeal. Yet, there's no shortage of complaints about Leupold, and you defend them to the hilt.

Leica doesn't have the investment in sport optics that Swaro and Zeiss does. They have a different business model, and due to lower volume sports optics sales, they likely don't have the same profitability built in that affords them the same kind of "no questions asked" coverage of a Swaro, Leupold, Vortex, etc. has. I assure you that no exemplary warranty comes for free; it's built in to the retail price. Yes, Leica has a high retail price, but they also have much lower sales volume than their sports optics competitors, so perhaps they can't afford to have the same repair policies as some of their competitors. It's expensive to build high end items in relatively low volume in Germany.

Leica is a boutique product with a devoted following. Their stuff isn't for everyone, and isn't intended to be. If they've carved out the wrong niche and don't satisfy their customers, the market has a way of ferreting that out and punishing them for it unless or until they change. This doesn't necessarily mean they've done anything wrong. Those of us who like and use Leica products are fully aware of the pros and cons of buying their stuff vs. other brands and buy their stuff anyway because we like what they have to offer. Warranty and CS is obviously a hot-button topic to you and is very important to you. That's great. Newsflash: it isn't as big a deal to others. If I really like a product, I will buy it even if the warranty isn't all that great. If I don't like a product as much, the best warranty in the world won't sway my purchase decision. In this case, Leica's US warranty is pretty damn good compared to other consumer products, but they don't have the exemplary CS that Swaro, Leupold, and Vortex does. We all know that going in.

My suggestion to you is to NOT buy any Leica products. I doubt there's a soul here who posts on a regular basis who isn't aware of your distaste for Leica, so I feel certain you can consider that fact "duly noted" and move on to other topics of interest and disinterest.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 10:23
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I have mentioned this before, but even companies with top-tier CS will still treat the user-damaged warranty issues this way.

I recently paid Swaro to repair scratched lenses in my SLC neus. I purchased them from an excellent authorized dealer: SWFA. I also paid Leupold to do the same thing to some GR bins a few years ago. I wouldn't say either had poor CS because I had to pay to repair damage that was due to my own negligence, and I wouldn't say either have poor CS reputations either.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 10:33
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Let's get something straight Ted.  I don't give a crap who the manufacturer is.  When they command an excessively high price (includes all the Big 3), and continually/sporadically screw over their customers, yeah, it chaps my butt  because I don't like to see people taken advantage of. That's just not right, period.  I would bash Swaro, Zeiss, and Nikon if they provided the same practices with warranty and customer service.  You can bet I'd be on their azzzes too for the same reasons.  The fact is Leica sucks hind tit in these regards.  You people on this forum just choose not to see it, or even acknowledge it.   Just the way it is.   

I've owned several Leica products, which makes the situation worse.  They have several great products, which I've "duly noted" numerous times here.  After the sale you may be on your own unfortunately.  There's lots of negativity out there, not just mine. 

Forgive me for not liking to see consumers take it in the shorts. 
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Bitterroot, what did Swaro charge you if you don't mind me asking?   Did you guys miss the part where I said that I don't understand why Swaro fixes stuff for free, when they really have no right to? 

What would be you guys opinion of Swaro ,  since they command a premium price too, if their warranty was only for the original owner?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 10:40
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

The issue people have with your post isn't whether or not someone has a legit beef with Leica; it's that, given your post history on the subject of Leica, you seem to have an agenda. You have an obvious hard-on for Leica. Anytime someone has a bad opinion of Leica in any way, you jump on it with great zeal. Yet, there's no shortage of complaints about Leupold, and you defend them to the hilt.







Well said Rifledude, Everyone I know that has a Leica product is extremely happy with it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2013 at 10:49
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

You people on this forum just choose not to see it, or even acknowledge it.   Just the way it is.


So that is what this is all about.  You are upset because we don't agree with your findings.

In my case, I got a Geovid from SWFA that had a issue, I had sent in my warranty card.  I sent an email to CF2 at SWFA about it, he told me to contact Leica and that they have a good CS and would take care of me. (why would he say that if Leica is so terrible?  I dare bet SWFA has more experience with them than anyone of us.) I called them and told them what the issue was, the nice lady told me to send them in so they could take a look.  A week or two later, I got an email stating it was infact a manufacturers defect and that they would fix it.  A week or two later I got them back and they had replaced the right eye piece and cleaned and serviced them.  No charge.  The issue was fixed and I had no other problems with them.  I sold them to another guy locally and they have been fine for him.

So tell me, why would I toss aside my positive experience and just believe a few stories on the net that we are only privy to one side of the story?

How many times have we seen someone come onto this forum to dog SWFA and tell us their side of the story.  Then Chris of CF2 or Brady will come on and tell us their side.  Suddenly the whole out look changes.  All these complaints that you keep talking about, how many times has Leica actually got onto that topic and told their side of the story?  I dare bet zero.  So why do you put so much credit into a story coming from someone you do not even know and their woe's with Leica?  Almost guaranteed if you could hear the whole story without the embellishments of the poster things would sound a lot different.

Yes you had a bad experience, but I had a good one.  I have had 2 great experiences with Bushnell, but others have had terrible.  I have had several great experiences with IOR, but others have had terrible according to their accounts.  But my story will always hold me credit than theirs.  I have heard horrible things about Leupold, but I have also heard great things.  So should I not buy and Leupold because of that?  That would make no sense. 

Us as individuals can only see such a small part of the picture it is foolish of us to make a judgement of a company based on that small part of the pie. 
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