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LEICA ER vs S&B SUMMIT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2010 at 11:58
SouthernStar View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Joined: November/13/2010
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I acquired these 2 scopes and new I was only going to keep one.

SIZE:
S&B is a longer scope with a longer occular bell. The LEICA is shorter but has more mounting length. It has a larger diameter occular, but it is a shorter occular.

Appearance/Finish:
Both have a very nice matte finish. They appear very durable and thick. The S&B mounts a little lower do the 40mm bell and 1" tube.

Turrets:
The S&B is king here at least to me. The S&B has the nice posicon reticle indicator. The clicks have enough resistance and are consistent. The Leica moves very very easily, too easily. It feels like a toy almost, thats how easy it is to turn. Im not saying the leica was bad but for me the turrets spun without enough resistance.

Reticle:
S&B #8 is like a wide duplex. The posts are thinner and farther apart than what I prefer. THe crosshair thickness is good, not too thick or thin. Leica plex posts were bolder and came closer together. The crosshairs were thinner than the S&B. I prefered the leica post spacing, leica posts and S&B crosshairs. In the end, crosshairs go on the animal to shoot and the S&B will last a little longer in the twilight.

Optics:
TOSS-UP. Only differences were:
1) S&B either has a slightly higher magnification than it states on each power or resolves more detail. I could read a 2" lettering 50 yards away ever so slightly better with the S&B on any given power. It seemed "closer", maybe it was slightly higher power?
2) flare control when looking into a setting sun was ever so slightly better in the leica but both are superior to most anyhting and would allow for a shot under any condition.
3) on extreme low powers, the S&B was clearer to the edge while the Leica had the fish bowl look on 2.5x which I have seen in the zeiss 2.5-10x42 as well

I kept the SUMMIT
1) I prefer the less "blockiness" of 1" tubes everything else equal
2) S&B has legendary reliability and is a known company for rifle scopes only while Leica is getting feet wet again this market and commitment is unknown.
3) S&B now has US service center if needed, dont know what Leica has
4) S&B either had slightly better resolution or magnification, either way it was step "closer" looking
5) if you want more options in reticles and turrets, LEICA would be the answer. Me, I am just a plex guy with standard turrets.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2010 at 12:34
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Optics Apprentice
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I bought the Leica 2.5 with a Ballistic Reticle.  I am putting it on a 6.5 Grendel for now and eventually a 7mm Mag.  Hunting tomorrow and heading to the range now.  I can only compare it to a 3-9 Conquest in bright sun today but will have both at the deer lease for further review.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2010 at 13:05
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Sounds like you did a thoughtful comparison. It would be hard to choose between those two, although I certainly like scopes that are clearer edge to edge at low magnification. Given the "more must be better" mentality that many people have, the low end on scopes often is overlooked. But when you miss a shot because you can't get on target fast enough @ 50 yards, it can screw up your day.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2010 at 13:21
mike650 View Drop Down
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Nice review.

You may have mentioned this on your post and I apologize if I missed it but which Leica reticle were you using during your test comparison, the Leica-Plex???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2010 at 13:30
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Optics GrassHopper
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it was the leica plex.

It should be noted that any advantage these scopes have optically over the conquest level is very low.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2010 at 14:02
SouthernStar View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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what is SWFA's opinion here? haven't seen SWFA comment on the SUMMIT. i know they hunted the leica awhile back.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2010 at 20:27
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Optics Apprentice
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Joined: January/12/2007
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In clear and bright conditions...

Nikon Monarch 6x42
SS 10XHD
Conquest 2-9X40
Leica 2.5-10x42

Conditions were perfect other than windy.  The Monarch which I have on 3 rifles has been good enough for three seasons is a little yellow compared to these others.

I set the adjustables to 6 to compare the Nikon, same with the 10HD...maxed out the two adjusters.

I agree that the Leia adjusters are a little soft compared to the SS (about like the Conquest) but they track perfectly and it is a hunting scope with covers on 99% of the time.  If you want first rate, there is a difference between it and the rest especially the Monarch but not on a 200 yd range as far as targets are concerned.  You must look at stuff like tree leaves or the grass blades.  I had a few dollars more to spend than normal so I cranked up for the Leia and I will not be sending it back for one of the Zeiss or S&B'rs.  They were on my list as well.  With the trade in program I think it is a lot of scope for the money.  Is it worth 2-3 of the Conquests?  Can't say for sure other than it is very nice.  The ballistic reticle appears to be floating out there which is really nice.  Might be a little thin in low light but I will keep you posted.

My 17 yr old son didn't realize I had put the Leica on the Grendel and stated that he hadn't ever notice before how bright the scope was (he had been shooting the Monarch)  The Conquest was on the Grendel before).

I am not trying to encourage or discourage but I am happy with the Leica so far but the next two days will be a better test at the deer lease.  Bright clear conditions do little to separate the men from the boys.

My 7 Mag will be getting the Leica after the barrel is mounted and a 2.5-10x56 Accupoint will be going on the Grendel.  It is in shipping now so I couldn't check it out today for comparison.

Take care.

Richard
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/14/2010 at 14:25
maine(r) View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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 S&B will make a scope with any reticle on their list if you would like.  I got a #1 on a zenith and it was no charge.  It takes about 5 months.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/14/2010 at 14:59
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Optics Apprentice
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I used the Leica with a ballistic reticle  the last two days on the Grendel.  Only shot a hog at 150 yds with it.  The two deer were shot with the 3-9x40 Conquest due to 270 bolt vs AR 6.5.  Wife shot one and I shot the other.  Her first shot at anything other than paper so that was cool.  Dropped it in its tracks at 100 yds.  I am proud of her.

Back to the optics.  You can see the difference between the Conquest and the Leica in clarity but as SS stated there isn't much.  Low light performance I have to say to not go with a Ballistic Reticle.  The Plex in the Conquest is more visible.  You can use the BR in the Leica in low light but only as a plex.

I am very pleased with my optics on this trip.  Zen Ray ED 8x43's, Leica, and Zeiss Conquest.

I am switching the Trijicon onto the 6.5 right now.  The Leica will be on the 7 Mag once I get with the last few parts.

Richard
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2010 at 05:25
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Optics Apprentice
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there is no using a BDC reiticle during low light.  use something like a german #4 and illumination combined with MPBR @ 250 yards.Welcome
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