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Leica ER vs Leupold VX-6

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/13/2014 at 16:37
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Figured I'd spin a new thread rather than clog up my 375 H&H thread.

Boils down to picking between a Leica ER 2.5-10x42 with ballistic reticle vs a Leupold VX-6 2-12x42 FireDot LR Duplex reticle.

Purpose is general hunting rifle with ranges out to 300 yards on a CZ 550 in 375 H&H.

I've handled the VX-6 and was pleased, but am unable to handle the Leica locally.  Eye relief on both is 3.9", which is ideal for the intended purpose.  Leica is about an ounce lighter, but essentially a wash on a rifle that is already at 10 lbs.

Magnification ranges are generally comparable as well with Leupold having a slight edge on both the low and high end, but not a significant factor for me.  FireDot on the VX-6 is a nice plus for low light situations.

Reviews have been very positive on both scopes on this forum and others with some putting their optical quality in the Z5/Z6 category.  Contacted SWFA and was told comparing the VX-6 with the Leica ER was like comparing a Chevette to a Corvette, which I found very surprising.

Am I splitting hairs and should just flip a coin, or is the Leica much better optically compared to the VX-6?


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2014 at 00:25
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Leica is better. I have 2.5-10x42 and 3.5-14x42. Couldn't be happier with either.
 
VX-6 is a nice scope and offers a lot for the money, but to my eyes Leica is better.
 
ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2014 at 07:17
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Optically, slight edge to Leica.  Usability, VX6. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2014 at 07:20
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Ilya,

Thanks.  I read some of your comments on your Opticsthoughts site.  Appears their ER line is being phased out and replaced by the ERi line.  The 2.5-10x42 can be had for less than $1K.

Mike

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2014 at 07:28
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JGR:  In your previous posts you've been a strong advocate for the VX-6 and after handling one I'd have to agree on many accounts.  What do you mean by usability?  Illuminated reticle?  Forgiving eyebox?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2014 at 08:03
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As you know, in the field under hunting conditions you never know what your shooting position may be....uphill, downhill, prone, standing, etc.  The eyebox on the VX6 is very, very friendly, even at higher mags.  This is where lots of scopes fail to deliver IMO.  Mine has a CDS dial for my 7mag.  I've dialed it out to 900 yds, back to 100yds, and everywhere in between over the past year and a half and the adjustments are on the money.  No worries about getting way past legal shooting light/times either.   I just returned from Namibia with this 7mag/VX6 rig and over there your equipment can take a beating.  Performance on 12 head of game was perfect. 

I am also a big fan of some other scopes, mainly Meopta, and I like the Conquests (Meopta made those too), but this VX6 is very impressive.  Also, if you ever decide to get rid of it, the VX6 warranty with Leupold transfers to the other owner (lifetime transferrable), whereas the Leica's does not (original owner only), which is retarded.  The Leupold will be much easier to sell. 

The only way I'd buy the Leica is with an illuminated reticle.  The regular duplex's I've seen in the ER's is way too thin for me in challenging light. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2014 at 09:41
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Thanks.  Appreciate the insight and practical application.

The VX-6 with the LR Illuminated duplex can be had for less than $1K NIB.  The illuminated Leica ERi is another $500 plus.




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2014 at 11:11
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VX-6 ALL THE WAY
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2014 at 12:15
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Originally posted by Cat Power Cat Power wrote:

VX-6 ALL THE WAY

Have you compared the two scopes in question? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2014 at 22:38
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I don't think you can go wrong with either scope, as both will do everything you need.  I agree with JGR that the forgiving nature of the eye box is a great feature for the VX-6, though I don't know that it's any better in that respect than the Leica, as it too is very generous.  Reticles are very much a personal preference thing, but I think Leica offers a better variety to choose from than Leupold, with everything from the #1, to a couple different types of Plex reticles, to two different hold-over reticles with the "Ballistic" and the "IBS".  (If low light hunting is high on your priority list though, Leica's "Ballistic" reticle may not be your best choice.)  With the Leica you also have the option to get an MOA based target turret for elev adjustment, matched with an MOA based hold-over reticle (the IBS) which is a nice option to have.  If you hunt in an area where moisture is prevalent, the Leica gives you a hydrophobic coating that Leupold doesn't have, but by the same token, if illumination is important to you, that feature is going to cost quite a bit more on the Leica than the Leupold.   Leica's glass is hard to beat, but for people that place a lot of value in warranty, the same can be said about Leupold's warranty.  I was extremely impressed by the VX6 when scope shopping, but ended up buying the Leica because it fit my particular needs better.   FWIW, I've been extremely happy with the Leica, would buy another in a heartbeat, and haven't heard of any problems associated with the ER line. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2014 at 08:25
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Maverick,

Appreciate the excellent comments.  Lot of meat for me to chew on, particularly on the Ballistic reticle and Leica's warranty.

I'll just need to see if I can find one locally to compare with the VX-6.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2014 at 15:19
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:


The only way I'd buy the Leica is with an illuminated reticle.  The regular duplex's I've seen in the ER's is way too thin for me in challenging light. 


Have you seen the #4A and #1 reticles? I have both on (2) 2.5-10X42s, and neither are too thin to my eyes. Duplex isn't the only non-illuminated reticle option.

I wish the #4 posts extended a tad further toward the center of the reticle, but the posts themselves are plenty thick enough and the low light performance of the scope good enough that I can take a shot way past legal shooting light and well into dark thirty.

The #1 certainly isn't for everyone, but it's just about the thickest hunting reticle you'll ever see. At the same time, the sharp point on the post allows for precision aiming.

VX-6 is a fantastic scope; maybe the best variable hunting scope series Leupold has ever made if weight isn't a consideration.

Both are very good scopes that would serve you well, and I'd be more than happy with either. That being said, if it were me, I'd pick the ER, especially at current prices. The hydrophobic lens coatings, slightly better optics, longer main tube (while at the same time not being longer overall), and less weight are more important to me than greater zoom range. Both of mine have been rock solid and have tracked perfectly in my limited tracking tests. I have capped model ERs, on "set and forget" setups, so as long as they maintain POI, I'm happy. They have. The non-transferrable warranty issue would only matter to me if I ever planned to sell mine. I don't.

As for the "eyebox" forgiveness issue, I have no idea which is superior, but I can say in my estimation the ERs aren't lacking in that regard. I've hunted with them a lot over the past few years, and I've never had to readjust my head position when I've gotten behind them in any scenario to date, so I've got no complaints there.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2014 at 15:29
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If you've never hunted a VX6 then you can't fathom what I'm talking about when I say "most user friendly variable ever".  The only way Leica sells any of their scopes is by heavily discounting them, and their not worth the extra $500 IMO.  If I were buying a $1500 scope it would have "Meopta" stamped on it.   

I think a guy should buy whatever he wants, for whatever reason he wants to. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2014 at 16:36
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

The only way Leica sells any of their scopes is by heavily discounting them, and their not worth the extra $500 IMO.  If I were buying a $1500 scope it would have "Meopta" stamped on it.   

I think a guy should buy whatever he wants, for whatever reason he wants to. 

Leica is not the first manufacturer to play games with MSRP and actual selling price, nor will they be the last, so not sure of the relevance there. What is relevant, is that he can currently get a Leica ER set up the way he wants for about $1000, and he can currently get a Leupold VX6 set up the way he wants for about $1000.  Winner will probably be whichever one offers the better combo of options for his particular needs.  In this class of scope, it's a moot point to make any internet claim as to which scope is "best", since the grading criteria changes with each end user. 

Like you I'm very excited about Meopta scopes, and hope that one of the scopes in their R2 line fits my needs for my next scope purchase -- I think they are offering one of the best values in scopes right now.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2014 at 16:45
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

If you've never hunted a VX6 then you can't fathom what I'm talking about when I say "most user friendly variable ever". 


Why do you repeatedly do that, JG? You recently asked me over at the other forum why you and certain individuals here butt heads, and the highlighted statement above is a big reason why, my friend.

Do you think you're the only guy who hunts a lot and uses lots of optics? Why do you feel the need to be condescending to others who have a different point of view than yours? I responded to your post respectfully and in a matter-of fact, non- confrontational manner. You have no idea how many guns and optics I own or how much time I spend in the field with them. How do you know what I can and can't "fathom?"

Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

The only way Leica sells any of their scopes is by heavily discounting them


How do you know this? Are you privy to their sales numbers? Have you taken a poll? Besides myself, I know quite a few people who bought one or more of them, at least 10 OT members. For argument's sake, even if your statement were true...so what? We're talking about current pricing realities anyway. Bugatti doesn't sell a lot of cars either. Leica doesn't have the market exposure or the long history of making riflescopes like Leupold does. How does that in any way reflect on the virtues of the product? I don't take a poll on what other people like or dislike before spending my own money on stuff I like, and what others like or dislike has little to no influence on what I buy. How about you?

Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

and their not worth the extra $500 IMO.  If I were buying a $1500 scope it would have "Meopta" stamped on it. 


That's all fine and good, but the current prices on the 2.5-10X42 ERs (non-illuminated) are LESS than the 2-12X42 VX-6, due to the fact they are being phased out in favor of the ERi versions. That is what the subject of this thread is about; current pricing. Even before the ERi series was introduced, I paid nowhere near $1500 for both of my ERs.

Even if the 2.5-10X42 ER in question was still priced at $1500, I don't believe the Meopta Meostar is quite as good in several respects (mainly because the Meostar scopes of comparable magnification are much longer, heavier, and have no hydrophobic coatings), but that's my opinion, based on the things that are important to me. I'm glad you like your Meoptas; they are great optics for certain!

Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:


I think a guy should buy whatever he wants, for whatever reason he wants to. 


I agree 100%...
...and so does everyone else in this thread. Did someone imply otherwise?

Marine asked for opinions. I offered mine, as did you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2014 at 16:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2014 at 18:10
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Originally posted by Maverick2 Maverick2 wrote:

Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

The only way Leica sells any of their scopes is by heavily discounting them, and their not worth the extra $500 IMO.  If I were buying a $1500 scope it would have "Meopta" stamped on it.   

I think a guy should buy whatever he wants, for whatever reason he wants to. 

Leica is not the first manufacturer to play games with MSRP and actual selling price, nor will they be the last, so not sure of the relevance there. What is relevant, is that he can currently get a Leica ER set up the way he wants for about $1000, and he can currently get a Leupold VX6 set up the way he wants for about $1000.  Winner will probably be whichever one offers the better combo of options for his particular needs.  In this class of scope, it's a moot point to make any internet claim as to which scope is "best", since the grading criteria changes with each end user. 

Like you I'm very excited about Meopta scopes, and hope that one of the scopes in their R2 line fits my needs for my next scope purchase -- I think they are offering one of the best values in scopes right now.



I couldn't agree more.   What's "best" can be very subjective.  I have several "bests" depending on what I'm doing.

Rifle, didn't mean to hurt your feelings.  You need to lighten up a bit, bud.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2014 at 20:34
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Okay I've found a novel way to settle the dilemma for me.  I'm just going to get both.  Friend of mine wants more magnification and is going to trade me his VX-6 for my Weaver tactical that I have sitting around and I'll pick up the Leica.  One will go on my 260 Rem that I'm converting from a long range rifle to a hunting rifle and the other on the CZ 550. 

I understand the ER line is being phased out in favor of the illuminated ER line, so timing is right.

We'll see how both models stack up according to my eyes and doubt I'll be disappointed in either.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2014 at 23:48
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Leica is discontinuing their ER line and replacing it with the ERi illuminated reticle scope line.  They are not discounted scopes, they are clearance of a premium product.  I own one of the ER 2.5-10x42 scopes and they are not discount scopes by any stretch of the imagination.  They are first cabin quality that has been discontinued.  I am comparing the Leica ER against several model of Zeiss scopes which I own and they are very capable scopes!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2014 at 08:53
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Best laid plans.  Friend decided to keep his VX-6 for his wife's 7mm-08 but decided just to purchase my Weaver tactical.  With a little more jingle in the pocket, decided to go the ERi route. Picked up a Leica ERi 2.5-10x42 with the IBS reticle.

Looks like the best of both worlds.  Better optics from Leica with the illumination of the VX-6.

Maverick provided me with the subtension info for the IBS reticle and looking forward to getting this one out to the range/field.

More to follow once it comes in.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2014 at 08:58
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Look forward to AAR, Marine. Post pics, if you can.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2014 at 11:42
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Used my Leica ER 2.5-10x42 with 4a reticle the entire season last year. No issues picking up the reticle in varying light and terrain conditions. It's an excellent scope, if you haven't hunted with one don't be a hater. Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2014 at 17:47
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Just picked up the Leica ER i 2.5-10x42 with the IBS reticle and now I see what everyone was talking about.  Observations are limited to my playing with it briefly inside my office building.  Optics are better than my Z3 and the VX-6 that I handled previously.  Not significant but noticeable to my eyes.

IBS reticle will be a good hunting reticle and appreciate Maverick's advice on going that route vs the ballistic reticle.  IBS has the appropriate thickness for low light hunting situations and the illumination is another plus.

One difference I do see between the VX-6 and the Leica is the color.  To keep this fair and in context, I looked at both scopes indoors, each in a different location, but the color correctness was better in the Leica.  The VX-6 almost seemed to have a very slight greenish blue tinge to it.  Could easily have been the surroundings I was in and will have a better feel once I can get them outdoors.

Still have the VX-6 on my want list and will be a good fit on my 257 Wby.  I like it better than the Meopta Meostar R1 4-12x40 that is on it now, which is no slouch either.

As others have said, both the Leica ER i and VX-6 are winners.  Pictures and more detailed review once I get everything mounted/out to the range.

Doing our annual pilgrimage to Oklahoma and Branson, MO so range report will need to wait until I return.

Thanks again for the rudder.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2014 at 18:37
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The best place to test optics is outdoors, please let us know how it goes. Thunbs Up


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2014 at 20:34
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The greenish tinge is from fluorescent lights!
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