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Lapping scope rings...opinions?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2006 at 23:43
ChrisGarrett View Drop Down
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Hello, I'll be honest...on my Savage 10FP LE2B, Sendero 7 Rem Mag and 12 VLP, I have basic Leupold Standard rings and bases.  All are 1" tubes.  I see that on one famous reloading site, they have  the Wheeler Lapping kit for 1" rings on sale for $30.  These also come with two pointy alignment rods, to make sure that the dovetails are cranked on axis. 

 

Would buying the lapping kit be worth the scratch?  My Sako has the 34mm Sako 3 ring Tactical Mount and I'm probably out of luck on that, but I was just curious.  I do have the German HK 30mm claw mount housing an SA Goverment Gen 1 scope, but I'm not too concerned about that for now.

 

I see that one guy on Ebay sells both a 1" and 30" kit with 2 grits, 240 and 320, but he doesn't have the alignment bars that might help me with my 'eyeballed' setups that I currently run.

 

Thanks, Chris 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2006 at 04:21
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Hello, Chris.

 

Ring lapping has long been a controversial topic for some reason.

 

Can you provide a link to the Ebay guy's lapping kit?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2006 at 14:13
ChrisGarrett View Drop Down
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Hello CheapTrick,

 

I got a PM from another fellow explaining it to me.  The Leupold rings are grooved and I wonder if it's even worth the effort with them.  The Sako tactical rings are smooth on the inside and would qualify, but at 34mm, I'm probably out of luck vis-a-vis any 'kits' out there.

 

Here's the link to the fellow on Ebay.  I think for $58 bucks delivered, this kit would kill a couple of birds with one stone for some, but I like those Wheeler rods, that have visual cues to line up the dovetail type rings.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003& ;sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=13004122 6550&rd=1&rd=1

 

Still, until I get tac bases and rings, I'll probably hold off.  I have some 2 piece Ken Farrell 20 MOA bases for the Sendero 7mm, but I need to get the funds in order for rings.  At that point, I would consider just doing it (lapping) to fiddle more than seeking any major benefit.

 

Take care and thanks, Chris

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2006 at 03:47
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Thanks for the link!!

 

I have never lapped a set of rings in my life.

But, I may start. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2006 at 00:54
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I consider it a must do practice.

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2006 at 01:02
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Warne QD rings are self lapping.  I've been very happy with my set...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2006 at 14:36
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ceylonc ceylonc wrote:

Warne QD rings are self lapping.  I've been very happy with my set...

 

Bro, could you elaborate on "self lapping??"

Or pre-lapped??

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 13:16
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I say scrap the whole idea and convert over to Burris signature rings. These rings are a steel ring with a plastic insert that goes between the scope and the ring. The advantages are many and include no marks on your expensive scope. Stress free solid mounting with a large contact area. Also availible are what Burris calls signature pos-align offset inserts. These are the plastic insert part with an off center eccentric. This will compensate for off center scope mounting holes or for long distance shooting. the inserts claim to correct for 5,10,or 20 inches at 100 yards. if you are using weaver type bases the rings are called Burris signature ZEE rings. I have switched all of my varmint guns over to these rings and I am very happy with them.     
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 23:56
Anthony View Drop Down
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ring lapping takes a long time (hours) and gets that greasy compound in the threads of the lower half of the rings, but if you decide to sell your scope you will get more money for an unscathed tube, so if you don't lap your rings, either get aluminum, or the ones with plastic inserts, or learn some prayers for when your tightening down that big peice of steel on top of your aluminum tube.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/09/2006 at 00:06
ChrisGarrett View Drop Down
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Hi,

 

I just line all my rings with a single layer of Scotch tape cut to fit.  No marring at all and it has the effect of slightly, ever so slightly, cushioning out minor imperfections in the surface of the rings.

 

There is no shifting under recoil, either.  Some prefer masking tape.

 

Chris

 

PS:  I had the chance to get the Sako OptiLock rings with the rubber inserts but when I switched to a 34mm tube, I noticed that the 34mm Sako tactical rings were bare parkerized steel.  They obviously felt that it wasn't necessary, which I found interesting as the intended scope is Schmidt Bender, when using said 34mm rings.  Maybe they know something that we don't?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/09/2006 at 21:40
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IMHO, lapping is a waste of time with top quality mounts.  But of course, for rings and a 1 piece base you are looking around $250 usually.  I have a TPS 1 pc base.  I just bedded it to my action.  Maybe no need as the bedding was so thin it was hard to keep on the base.  Then I used the quality TPS rings.  Never a doubt I was going to scratch or ding the tube.

 

Now for 2pc bases, or less precise setups, I can see where bedding the bases and lapping have some real benefits.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2006 at 11:02
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For two piece bases use this and you will have a more true set up, than a one piece base:  http://www.tpsproducts.com/products.php?cat=74

 

http://www.basebed.com/

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2006 at 13:28
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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TPS Phil, stand by for incoming PM....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 02:35
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I've lapped low quality alloy rings, high quality steel rings and everything in between. Every time I've done it, I've noticed high and low spots on each of them.  There might be a perfect set of rings and bases out there, but I haven't found them yet!

Once you notice the numerous voids and patterns left inside partially-lapped rings, you'll probably be a believer like me.

It does matter...so why skimp on quality assembly? Can't afford $30 for a lapping kit? Borrow one.

Your life may even depend on it some day.   

Edited by RollerCam
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 12:03
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Lapping is kind of like gun cleaning, many different ways to do it an everybody gets small groups so there must be no real correct answer. Lapping breaks down into two schools of thought. Those that believe that the high quality optical instrument they just bought should rest in a perfectly aligned bed. NIghtforce scopes believes this and thus their rings are undersized for lapping, at least the lower half, and what holds the top part on is just along for the ride. They also warn against the use of any turn in mounts. Benchrest shooters tactical shooters and some others are in this group. They believe that a hot spot in the rings can effect the internals of the scopes adjustment.  The other school believes that tolerance stack up is impossible to avoid and only the rough burrs should be taken off (or not bothered with at all). Badger rings, supposedly one of the best doesn't recommend lapping as it voids their warranty. (probably because they feel that being milled to closer tolerances than anything else). This latter group uses everything from turn ins to single side (weaver types). Are tactical shooters any harder on their guns than pick up driven red neck cowboys? I doubt it. Certainly benchresters need closer tolerences but then they never shoot off hand.

INvestmentcast types, like Millets will have low spots no matter what, and as rollercam pointed even some high end ones. How does onel know when the lapping has increased the diameter to 31 or 32 mms and thus too large for the scope tube.(which incidently are not the same-- you may have a two piece that can be as much as 2 mm larger than the other). Hopefully the lapping rod will take up tolerance and give you that ideal job. ---OR  you can use fill ins as pointed earlier by using burris stuff or even tape (which is a compromise).

I use Warnes alot and yet to find they are self lapping.

OK you just lapped your $125 rings, and find out the $125 20 MOA angle base you just got with it places the 100-200 yd, center by more than 15 MOA  off axis and now places you optical center more than 60% out of the sweet spot of the optical axis center. Did lapping really help?

Perhaps you are just doing some non critical shooting (what ever that is-not shooting at people I guess). Is your gun and loads capable of sub MOA accuracy? Even if it is be aware of the other problems that can occur. I've seen tolerance stack up occur with just throwing a scope on a gun and result in sub MOA groups. Who knows what part of the package formula is causing what?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 14:43
RifleDude View Drop Down
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Originally posted by nksmfamjp nksmfamjp wrote:

IMHO, lapping is a waste of time with top quality mounts.  But of course, for rings and a 1 piece base you are looking around $250 usually.  I have a TPS 1 pc base.  I just bedded it to my action.  Maybe no need as the bedding was so thin it was hard to keep on the base.  Then I used the quality TPS rings.  Never a doubt I was going to scratch or ding the tube.

 

Now for 2pc bases, or less precise setups, I can see where bedding the bases and lapping have some real benefits.

 

nksmfamjp,

It's not always an issue of the quality of the rings/mounts.  More often than you'd believe, a rifle's mount screw holes aren't lined up with each other front to back, or with the centerline of the receiver well enough to prevent stress on the scope tube.  Lapping the rings corrects this, as well as any potential misalignment in the rings themselves.  Every single set of rings I've lapped have shown at least some misalignment.  I highly recommend lapping for most rifles, especially a rifle intended for precision shooting.  The rings with the plastic inserts (Burris Signature, Sako Opti-Lok, etc.) are a great alternative to lapping, plus they don't mar scope tubes as has been mentioned.

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