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Kimber Montana rings and scope help please.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2014 at 17:46
R H Clark View Drop Down
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Well, basically I got a wild hair and bought a Kahles 3-10X50 Helia CL. I don't have a rifle to mount it on so I thought I might try it out on my Kimber Montana 7mm-08 just to see how the weight and balance changed, and to see how I like the extra magnification and 4A reticle.

I had a Kahles AH 2-7X36 mounted in medium Burris Signature Zee rings on the rifle originally. I just bought the rifle and wanted to explore my options. I needed Medium rings because of the large ocular. Here is my old set up.


Just for laughs, I mounted the new 50mm in the same rings. Weight difference is 2 oz.


It is tight but not touching. A single thickness of copy paper slides easily. Two thicknesses will slide but I feel some drag. Three thicknesses won't go without tearing.

I don't even know if this is a safe amount. I kind of doubt it. Rings are tight.

Now to the questions.
1.What height Talley lightweights do I need and still be as low as possible if I want to negate the 2 OZ?

2. With low as possible in mind, Would I get a safe amount of clearance by using the Burris shim kit to increase height?


I like the Burris mounts to eliminate ring marks, and 2 oz isn't a big deal to me. I might wind up scrapping the whole idea but I would like to shoot it first before I decide.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2014 at 00:19
Oldtrader3 View Drop Down
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I have had difficulty with Burris rings marking my scopes.  I would go to a higher quality ring.  For my Kahles 50mm scope, I use TPS medium rings and they give me about 3/16's barrel clearance.  For the Talley lightweights, you may need high rings?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2014 at 06:49
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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So long as it doesn't literally touch, your good to go. I saw one of Rifledude's rigs the other day and he actually had LESS clearance than yours. Your fine.  

If you want to switch to Talley Light Weights, medium should work.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2014 at 01:49
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I do not see why you are making such an issue out of this. You hijacked some one elses thread and posted these same pics there asking about scope hight and I told you it is fine and now you open another thread just to hear more people tell you that it is fine. Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2014 at 14:45
R H Clark View Drop Down
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I do not see why you are making such an issue out of this. You hijacked some one elses thread and posted these same pics there asking about scope hight and I told you it is fine and now you open another thread just to hear more people tell you that it is fine.


You are out of line buddy. I never hijacked anyone's thread. The other thread I posted pictures in was my thread about this scope. Another guy posted his pictures of his scoped rig and I did mine as well.

It's not a big deal unless you make it one. I told you in the other thread why I wanted slightly higher rings but obviously your reading comprehension is as lousy as your memory.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2014 at 19:37
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Were all good. No harm done. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2014 at 21:27
R H Clark View Drop Down
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I responded more harshly than I meant or than was necessary. I'm sorry about that and will try to not let it happen again.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2014 at 21:31
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Very nice looking rig RH. I would think its fine like it is, although I have heard anecdotal talk of "scope whip" and such. I have a VX-3 40mm scope mounted in low rings on a M70. It has similar clearance and it shoots just fine.

BTW - you on ALDeer? Seems like I remember your user name . later!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2014 at 21:54
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I'm running Talley mediums for my euro scopes with 50mm bell with no issues. What you usually have to watch out for is the eye piece and bolt clearance, not the bell touching the barrel.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2014 at 05:27
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I have a 50mm scope that I need to mount.  This just answered my question.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2014 at 07:21
R H Clark View Drop Down
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While the medium Burris Signature Zee will work here, it's not optimum because of eye relief. The scope has to be all the way forward for the objective bell to clear.

Yes, I'm on Aldeer as well.

I have tried some high Burris Zee's now that allow proper eye relief and I still have good cheek weld. I may however go to Talley Lightweight Medium mounts and try the weight difference. The two ounces of scope and whatever extra the high rings made, have definitely made the rifle feel heavier. It is still a light weight but not as much difference in handling now between it and some of my other rifles. That may be a good thing in the end, and how it shoots and behaves will be the determining  factor rather than a few ounces here and there.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2014 at 23:30
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With a good Austrian scope like the Kahles, I would not use Burris rings.  They are not very precision bored and will scratch the scope tube finish in short order.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2014 at 09:51
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Oldtrader

These Burris rings are the Signature Zee which have the self centering polymer inserts in the ring. I hate ring marks too, which is the main reason I went with these. I don't have much experience with them but they get good reviews generally. I have Sako rifles with the Optilock rings which use inserts and I love them , so I thought I would give the Burris Signature Zee rings a try.


Can you recommend a precision light weight ring in a Weaver style? I thought of trying the Talley Light Weights but I have heard some bad reports from folks using them. Some where they required so much lapping that they wouldn't even hold any longer. Certainly that could have been a problem with the receiver or even the user, but I have seen a lot of ring marks on scopes from the Talley Light Weights from guys selling scopes. I have heard though that those marks are often caused by the user over tightening the rings.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2014 at 10:04
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RE: the eye relief thing...

Personally, I tend to setup my scopes to err on the long side of eye relief whenever the mount setup allows, because if you ever shoot prone, you will need that extra eye relief. I setup my scopes so that the eyepiece is almost (but not quite) too far away so that I'm at the outer edge of available ER when I shoulder the rifle. When shooting downward or in prone position, your eye will be closer to the scope, and you will need the extra latitude in that situation.

As long as you can get the full sight picture, I'd leave it as-is.

Of course, I'm the kind of guy who never mounts a scope that large on an ultralight rifle in the first place, and I very seldom ever use scopes with objective lenses larger than 42/44 mm, unless the scope is mounted on a dedicated night-time predator/feral hog rifle. I've never encountered a single scenario in BG hunting where I couldn't make an ethical shot at the limits of legal shooting light with a good 42mm objective scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2014 at 11:34
R H Clark View Drop Down
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RifleDude

I tend to agree with you on smaller objective scopes. This is the first 50mm I've ever owned. I may not keep it on the Montana but thought I would play with it a while and see how I like it. It's only 2 ounces heavier than the 2-7X36 I had on it originally. I thought about changing to Talley Light weight rings and making up most the difference in weight, which puts the combo right at 6 lbs even with the 50mm Kahles.

Basically I'm going to play around with it a while with different combo scopes and mounts and see what I like best. I have this 50mm Kahles, the 2-7 X36 kahles and I might even try a Leupold M8 4X in Talley extra low light weight mounts. Going to try the 2-7X36 Kahles in Talley Light weight lows too before I decide on anything.

Likely I'll wind up with the 2-7X36 Kahles in Talley light weights since this is my deep woods gun. We have a National Forrest with some bruisers but you may have to go 3-4 miles in to get one. I'm talking up and down some hills and hollows thickly wooded with lots of bluff rock outcrops and deep isolated hollows. 3-4 miles doesn't seem like much in open country but it is when it's steep and thick.

Some big hogs in there too. I've seen some that looked like Russian boars in the 600+ pound range. I know they were that big because they were killed and weighed. The hogs into the equation is the only reason I considered the 50mm with 4a. I can tell a difference just looking through it and the 36mm Kahles  after sunset. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2014 at 22:52
Oldtrader3 View Drop Down
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I use the TPS mediums for 50mm scopes.  You can get them in 7075 Al to save a couple ounces and they are bored within 0.0002" guaranteed.  They sell for about $75.  I have (5) pairs of them on my better scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2014 at 11:57
R H Clark View Drop Down
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I use the TPS mediums for 50mm scopes.  You can get them in 7075 Al to save a couple ounces and they are bored within 0.0002" guaranteed.  They sell for about $75.  I have (5) pairs of them on my better scopes.


Thanks my friend. I may need to pick up some of those as well. I am assuming no lapping is necessary with those, and they should eliminate ring marks unless something is wrong with the receiver and the drilled holes.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2014 at 14:41
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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I've never lap a set of rings in my life, including the couple of pair of TPS I have. There hasn't been a ring mark on any scope tube put in them. As stated, they are incredibly well made and lapping isn't required. 

Now...there are those who lap rings and they will probably do so any way.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2014 at 18:50
R H Clark View Drop Down
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I've never lap a set of rings in my life, including the couple of pair of TPS I have. There hasn't been a ring mark on any scope tube put in them. As stated, they are incredibly well made and lapping isn't required


Me neither but I've always used fairly expensive rings or rings with polymer inserts. I see $1500 scopes with horrible ring marks and I wonder what caused them. I've even seen expensive scopes with their tubes dented. It may be all operator error but I see where it looks like vertical split rings cause more problems than others. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2014 at 19:11
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There's a lot of shooters who simply don't know how to properly install a scope in rings. They over-do some areas and under-do other aspects of scope mounting. 

I love Talley rings, but I had some ring marks on a scope tube left from the vertical split. I typically avoid vertical split rings.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2014 at 20:21
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I think ring marks also has a lot to do with the finish on the scope. Every IOR scope i have owned had ring marks. I ised badger, TPS, seekins, nightforce, larue, IOR, ARMs. I lapped some and didnt lap others. My swfa scopes i have used lapped rings and non lapped Rings with no ring marks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2014 at 23:31
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I also have a Kahles 3.5-10x50 scope which I bought in about 2002 from SWFA.  I have had it mounted on both my 7mm Rem Mag and a .340 Mark V Weatherby.  The scope has always been super clear and has worked well for me on both of these magnum rifles.  I can say nothing but good things about my Kahles scopes, both of them.
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