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Kahles, Steiner, Minox, +- $500.00

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2010 at 22:50
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
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Looking for a gift to get a Bird Watcher, Ocean Viewer, Lake Looker, Deer Watcher, needs to be portable not too much weight and needs to be in-stock either sample list or in-house...Need to order same day to get next day shipping to have shipped by Thursday...
 
Thank You for your direction!!!
 
 Looking for budget minded best brightness, least color fringing, best lowlight, best color, highest clarity possible with best contrast and depth perception.  That is all...
 
No, I do realize these will not all come into play or be in the same class as a $1000+ bino but hey it is a last minute gift that I wish I could do better but even the $500 is a stretch with my budget...
 
THX you will make a old man very happy...He is 89 and is in love with seeing things through binos and has never had more than a $50 pair of bushnells....
 
Looking for 8x or 10x but am up to suggestions...  Really enjoy 8x personally and he looked through a pair I have and thought he was right next to an Eagle...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 07:42
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Given your criteria and price, I would get the Zen Ray ED2 8X43.
 
 
Optically speaking, it is definitely better than the Kahles, equivalent to the best Minox has to offer (yet with much wider FOV), and better than many Steiner models, depending on which one is used for comparison.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 10:21
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I have only used the 10x43 Zens, but if the 8x43 is anything like them, they are excellent for the money.
Likewise, between my Steiner Senators and my buddies military marine model, the Zens are better all around regarding the glass.
 
Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 10:31
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I am with Ted.  I have them, and for the money (under 430 for 10x42) from SWFA, they are incredible!  They blew away my first generation Nikon ATB's.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 11:30
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

Looking for a gift to get a Bird Watcher, Ocean Viewer, Lake Looker, Deer Watcher, needs to be portable not too much weight
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2010 at 18:32
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Ok so I am delaying this purchase to not make a mistake... I am still stomaching the Kahles @399 being worse off than The ZEN-RAY ED 2...
 
I have never been dissappointed  by Kahles...How are the Mechanics of the Zen-Rays? How in detail can a Chinese product be superior to an Austrian one?  Are the lenses better? Are the coatings better? Are the  Prisms better?  I am not trying to sound biased I have talked to Charles and he is a very well informed very well intentioned person but this is shocking to find out that they have been able to surpase the quality of Glass and the Refinement that Kahles has been known for... Is it the Extral Low Dispersion Glass???
 
The Minox Porro Prisims are seemingly very interesting to me and they seem to get great reviews... This is also very interesting the low dollar it seems that they are on the right track towards a technology that allows for great transmission...


Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - May/18/2010 at 18:34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2010 at 20:38
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

Ok so I am delaying this purchase to not make a mistake... I am still stomaching the Kahles @399 being worse off than The ZEN-RAY ED 2...
 
I have never been dissappointed  by Kahles...How are the Mechanics of the Zen-Rays? How in detail can a Chinese product be superior to an Austrian one?  Are the lenses better? Are the coatings better? Are the  Prisms better?  I am not trying to sound biased I have talked to Charles and he is a very well informed very well intentioned person but this is shocking to find out that they have been able to surpase the quality of Glass and the Refinement that Kahles has been known for... Is it the Extral Low Dispersion Glass???
 
The Minox Porro Prisims are seemingly very interesting to me and they seem to get great reviews... This is also very interesting the low dollar it seems that they are on the right track towards a technology that allows for great transmission...

I am not going to repost my PM reply here, but you could simply point me to this thread.

Kahles binos are made in Japan, not Austria.

Zen ED2 are simply a newer design.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2010 at 20:44
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

Ok so I am delaying this purchase to not make a mistake... I am still stomaching the Kahles @399 being worse off than The ZEN-RAY ED 2...
 
I have never been dissappointed  by Kahles...How are the Mechanics of the Zen-Rays? How in detail can a Chinese product be superior to an Austrian one?  Are the lenses better? Are the coatings better? Are the  Prisms better?  I am not trying to sound biased I have talked to Charles and he is a very well informed very well intentioned person but this is shocking to find out that they have been able to surpase the quality of Glass and the Refinement that Kahles has been known for... Is it the Extral Low Dispersion Glass???
 
The Minox Porro Prisims are seemingly very interesting to me and they seem to get great reviews... This is also very interesting the low dollar it seems that they are on the right track towards a technology that allows for great transmission...


YES, the Zen Ray ED2 is indeed better than Kahles.  It isn't even close, in fact!  I own a Kahles 10X42, and have tested the Zen ED and Hawke Frontier ED (which is the same binocular, made by the same manufacturer) against it.  The Hawke Frontier I tested happened to belong to Koshkin, in fact. 

The Kahles image displays much more CA, whereas, CA is almost nonexistent in the Zen ED2 image.  The Zen also has better contrast, wider FOV, and better low light performance.  Zen does have ED glass; Kahles does not.  Kahles binos are certainly good, but nothing special.  They aren't in the same league as their scopes, and quite frankly, I don't think they live up to the reputation of the Kahles name.  They don't quite stack up to the better midrange binos in my opinion, again as an owner of a pair of Kahles binos.  The Zen ED2 and Hawke Frontier are the best binos you can buy for under $500.  I don't particularly care for items made in China either, but the fact is, on image quality alone, the Zen ED2 blows away the Kahles, is as good or better than Minox, while offering much wider FOV than Minox.  It is basically in the same league as the Meopta Meostar and Vortex Razor, both of which cost considerably more than Zen ED2.  I can't speak to mechanical integrity, but I've not heard any complaints about its durability.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2010 at 21:10
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Rifle explained the optics better than I can.  As for durability, I've had mine since Sept '09.  I used it really, really hard this past 6 months with no problems whatsoever.  Given your criteria, I doubt they'll ever give you problems in your casual use.  Good Luck. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2010 at 23:55
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I do not take your oppinions lightly...
 
I am only used to the Kahles scopes never really had the binos in my hands for longer than a few peaks...
 
I have been dissappointed to find that they do not stack up or are not the same quality...
 
I will be buying two sets of binos in the AM one Pair of the Zen Rays and one pair of the MINOX porro prisims...
 

Tech Specs.

  • Magnification:
    10x
  • Front lens diameter:
    44 mm / 1.73 in
  • Exit pupil:
    4,4 mm / 0.173 in
  • Field of view:
    89 m / 1000 m, 5,1°
    268.34 ft / 1000 yds, 5,1°
  • Eye relief:
    16 mm / 0.63 in
  • Close distance:
    4 m / 13.12 ft
  • Over run:
    ±4 dpt
  • Diopter adjustment:
    ± 2 dpt
  • Twilight number:
    21
  • Geom. twilight number:
    19.4
  • Operating temperature:
    -10° to +50° C
    14° to 122° F
  • Waterproof:
    down to 5m
  • Height x Width x Depth:
    126 x 183 x 52 mm
    4.96 x 7.20 x 2.04 in
  • Weight:
    approx. 690 g
  • Order Number:
    62151

Prism Type:
Porro

  • Magnification:
    10x
  • Objective Lens Diameter:
    44mm
  • Angle of View:
    5.1°
  • Field-of-View:
    268' @ 1000 yd
    90 m @ 1000 m
  • Minimum Focus Distance:
    13.12' / 4 m
  • Exit Pupil Diameter:
    4.4mm
  • Eye Relief:
    16mm
  • Relative Brightness:
    19.4
  • Twilight Factor:
    21.0
  • Focus Type:
    Center
  • Weatherproofing:
    Water and fogproof
  • Tripod Socket:
    Yes (with Optional Adapter)
  • Dimensions:
    6.50 x 2.05 x 4.96"
    165 x 52 x 126mm
  • Weight:
    28.75 oz / 815g
     
     
     
    WENT WITH THE 10X
     
    AND will be giving an older Davis and Sanford Tri-Pod (zeiss labeled) due to weight (not really that much added weight... Smaller FOV noted...
  • Again thank you all for your input...

    It is a awesome to be able to get input from the 50 states and the rest of the free world...
    Much appreciated heads up and honesty...
     
    I know the ED2's will be as good as all the reviews and I am really looking forward to looking through a set of the Porro Prisms and excited to see Depth and Dimension...

     



    Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - May/19/2010 at 00:00
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2010 at 10:11
    supertool73 View Drop Down
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    Here is a pair of Kahles for sale.  http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=23274
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2010 at 15:05
    338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
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    Ok so the PORRO PRISMS are insane as far as DEPTH/DIMENSION they are not bulky while they are a little wider they are in no way bulky... I cannot get over looking at "rooftops" you can tell the 3D ness of them... Side By Side some Ultravids they do very very well... I can say the Ultravids do not offer the same depth perceptions at least to my eyes they do not the brightness is up to par but not 100% I would say 95ish of the Ultravids...However I still will not give up the Ultravids...

    For my intended gift they will be more than suitable...However I do not know what the 3D effect will do with someone elses eyes I guess Sea Sickness is an effect that you can feel, after seeing them and staring for a few hours I can see why... 
    I am still going to try to compare these to the ZEN-RAY/HAWKE/Infinity ELX and see how they do trying to get a 10x off the TEST DRIVE...


    Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - May/20/2010 at 15:07
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