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Kahles K624i vs... everything else

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2014 at 16:47
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I have now interacted with both Ken and Jeff, all seems well above board.

I am awaiting a final resolution, will have more details very shortly.

If considering Kahles, buy with confidence.  This started a bit rough, but that seems to have been a perfect storm and not a real problem.

More to follow.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2014 at 11:41
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cool..
my interactions with Ken have been positive and I firmly believe his a good guy wanting to do the right thing..

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2014 at 10:00
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An update is in the works.

In short, the gen 1 scopes had a few issues, some worse than others.  Mine had a very noticeable CA and, at range, some image softness.  Inside 300 yards or so, it was good, at and beyond 300, I wanted more detail.

All that to say the gen1 is gone and I now have a gen2 sitting on my 243AI.  I will be fire-forming brass shortly and ringing out the new scope.  

To clarify: my scope was nowhere near what motobie described previously (unable to resolve 223 holes at 100 yards), ,it did have trouble with 30-cal holes at 300 yards - where my 15X Premier had no issues whatsoever.

The quick "bay window" review shows the following:
1.  They got rid of the parallax detents at the yardage marks, which is great.
2.  The parallax adjustment requires less effort to turn - which wasn't a gripe of mine but was of some others.
3.  They have addressed the CA issue, I can tell immediately, but a more thorough evaluation will be coming.
4.  Image sharpness at range seems to be much improved.
5.  Perhaps most importantly, all the things they did right on the gen1 remain on the gen2 - and I have not yet found anything I would have liked addressed on the gen1 that was not addressed on the gen2.  I will post shortly on how well executed the changes work in the field. 


More to follow.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2014 at 10:26
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Great update.  I still may have to get one of those...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2014 at 10:37
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

An update is in the works.

In short, the gen 1 scopes had a few issues, some worse than others.  Mine had a very noticeable CA and, at range, some image softness.  Inside 300 yards or so, it was good, at and beyond 300, I wanted more detail.

All that to say the gen1 is gone and I now have a gen2 sitting on my 243AI.  I will be fire-forming brass shortly and ringing out the new scope.  

To clarify: my scope was nowhere near what motobie described previously (unable to resolve 223 holes at 100 yards), ,it did have trouble with 30-cal holes at 300 yards - where my 15X Premier had no issues whatsoever.

The quick "bay window" review shows the following:
1.  They got rid of the parallax detents at the yardage marks, which is great.
2.  The parallax adjustment requires less effort to turn - which wasn't a gripe of mine but was of some others.
3.  They have addressed the CA issue, I can tell immediately, but a more thorough evaluation will be coming.
4.  Image sharpness at range seems to be much improved.
5.  Perhaps most importantly, all the things they did right on the gen1 remain on the gen2 - and I have not yet found anything I would have liked addressed on the gen1 that was not addressed on the gen2.  I will post shortly on how well executed the changes work in the field. 


More to follow.

Perhaps, it is time I give Ken a call.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2014 at 10:55
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Much improved!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2014 at 23:00
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Good to know. Thanks for the update.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 19:37
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I had the gen2 out on the range today and immediately saw the improvements.  The CA is definitely addressed, and resolution looks great inside 200 yards (the longest shot I had today.)

Tracking was good, the reticle took a few minutes to analyze but after was good to go.

So far, so good. This is a monumental improvement over the gen1 scopes.  They kept the good stuff and fixed the weaknesses.

More to follow.  Hope to be on a 600+ yard range shortly.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2014 at 03:48
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Thanks for the update RC Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2014 at 15:02
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

I had the gen2 out on the range today and immediately saw the improvements.  The CA is definitely addressed, and resolution looks great inside 200 yards (the longest shot I had today.)

Tracking was good, the reticle took a few minutes to analyze but after was good to go.

So far, so good. This is a monumental improvement over the gen1 scopes.  They kept the good stuff and fixed the weaknesses.

More to follow.  Hope to be on a 600+ yard range shortly.

What do you think about the turrets? I thought they were a little on the light side when I handled one. What is your opinion on  them now that you've been using the scope for a while?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2014 at 15:14
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I like the turrets, good spacing, good resistance.  Was the one you handled used excessively?  I cannot comment on how the turrets will feel after being spun up/down 1000 times, but with the 10 or so range trips so far, mine have not loosened.  They are tactile and audible and do not spin without intention.

And sorry, I haven't checked the thread for awhile.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2014 at 08:04
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I handled 2 of them, one of which was a t&e and the other only had one owner who is a competition shooter.

Im glad youre enjoying yours. I really like the AMR reticle that is available with this scope.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2014 at 08:44
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I like the AMR too, that is what I have now.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/09/2014 at 12:00
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What do you guys think about Ken departing ways with Kahles?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/09/2014 at 12:04
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That probably depends on why he left, but I like Ken so I hope he is doing all right.

Who is running Kahles US now?  Did Jeff Huber stay with Kahles?  or did they both leave?

Thanks
ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/09/2014 at 17:43
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I wonder how motobie came out with his scope?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 10:06
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I spent a while on the phone with Jeff Huber yesterday.  He is running Kahles' US operations.  I am not sure why Ken left, but frankly it is none of my business, so I did not ask.

Kahles has a few interesting things up their sleeve, some late this year and some coming next year.

I plan to look at the updated K624i and K312i some time before the end of 2014.

I'll keep you posted with what I come up with.

ILya


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 12:01
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Lemme know. Mine is now on an AIAW in 300wm. It is a rifle with reach and needs some mag range.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/12/2014 at 15:44
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Hello all,

I have the opportunity to buy a Gen1 at a significant discount.  Are the issues widespread enough with *all* Gen1 scopes that I should simply steer clear?  Are any of the issues ones that can be taken care of by Kahles if I send the scope in for a tune-up?

Thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/12/2014 at 16:08
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Can you look through the scope prior to purchase?  There seems to have been a pretty broad range of optical quality issues with the gen1.  Mine was mild to mid, some said their issues put them in the "huge problem" category.

If you can look through it prior to purchase, I would look at high-detailed objects more than 300 yards away.  Also pay attention to light/dark interfaces, look for purple or red or blue edging.

Aside from the optical issues, mine was dead nuts reliable and I love the design.

If the scope has optical issues, Kahles won't "tune it up", the glass is what the glass is.

Hope that helps.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/13/2014 at 17:13
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

An update is in the works.

In short, the gen 1 scopes had a few issues, some worse than others.  Mine had a very noticeable CA and, at range, some image softness.  Inside 300 yards or so, it was good, at and beyond 300, I wanted more detail.

All that to say the gen1 is gone and I now have a gen2 sitting on my 243AI.  I will be fire-forming brass shortly and ringing out the new scope.  

To clarify: my scope was nowhere near what motobie described previously (unable to resolve 223 holes at 100 yards), ,it did have trouble with 30-cal holes at 300 yards - where my 15X Premier had no issues whatsoever.

The quick "bay window" review shows the following:
1.  They got rid of the parallax detents at the yardage marks, which is great.
2.  The parallax adjustment requires less effort to turn - which wasn't a gripe of mine but was of some others.
3.  They have addressed the CA issue, I can tell immediately, but a more thorough evaluation will be coming.
4.  Image sharpness at range seems to be much improved.
5.  Perhaps most importantly, all the things they did right on the gen1 remain on the gen2 - and I have not yet found anything I would have liked addressed on the gen1 that was not addressed on the gen2.  I will post shortly on how well executed the changes work in the field. 


More to follow.


Rancid Coolaid --

Thank you for sharing this information.  Overall this has been a very helpful thread as I am shopping for a scope and the K624i is at the top of my short list.  I also read about it over at the Precision Rifle Blog, in Cal's 2014 scope review round up.  He also noted some problems with optical quality on the K624i.

I asked Cal if he knew which generation of scope it was that he evaluated for his 2014 test, mentioning this forum thread, and he came back with some very interesting information from Jeff Huber.  It was really great of Cal to get in touch with Jeff Huber and also for Jeff to share this information, so if it's OK I'll just post the link to Cal's blog where he posted what Jeff told him in the comments:

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/

(search for 624i in the comments at the bottom and you'll see what he had to say).

In short, they're making more optical design revisions and will have an even more improved version out in January.

Definitely interested in how things worked out for motobie also.

Thanks for the info everyone - good stuff.  I'll be marking my calendar for January.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2014 at 09:22
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Lots of good info there, thanks for the link.

I still like my K624i quite a bit, optical quality is good but not stellar, and the features still make it my favorite to use.

I will watch for the January news.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2014 at 23:59
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Can you look through the scope prior to purchase?  There seems to have been a pretty broad range of optical quality issues with the gen1.  Mine was mild to mid, some said their issues put them in the "huge problem" category.

If you can look through it prior to purchase, I would look at high-detailed objects more than 300 yards away.  Also pay attention to light/dark interfaces, look for purple or red or blue edging.

Aside from the optical issues, mine was dead nuts reliable and I love the design.

If the scope has optical issues, Kahles won't "tune it up", the glass is what the glass is.

Hope that helps.


Unfortunately it is on the east coast and I am near the west.  So looking through it is a no-go.  I was hoping that the CA problems were a rarity, but I'm not sure I would buy a Gen1 now, sight unseen, unless I was sure Kahles would work with me to work out the issues.  Sad, as it was a really great deal!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2014 at 10:54
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If it is a really great deal, it might be worth the price.

My gen1 had acceptable glass, and inside 300 yards, I had no real issues.  The features are nice, the mechanicals - for my 2 at least - have been spot-on, for an awesome price, a gen1 might not be bad.

Will the owner give you an honest appraisal of its faults?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2015 at 20:14
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Probably last update of the thread.  I have the gen2, it has spent considerable time in the field, these are the summary thoughts:

1.  The glass simply is not the best.  Though the gen2 is superior to the gen1; with time on the scope, it just doesn't measure up.  Given the price of the gen1 when it launched, it should have been far better.  The gen2 was a significant improvement, but still isn't what the price indicated it should be.  Now a gen3 is coming and I am, quite honestly, tired of waiting for Kahles to have the quality that matches the price.  Maybe the gen3 is awesome, maybe it's by far the best scope they have ever made, but I ain't buying another.  Too many promises, too much money spent, not enough scope for that money.

2.  The parallax adjustment is still, by far, my favorite design, but is lacking in usability.  Parallax adjustment is picky, I seem to spend more time on this than most - if not all -  other scopes.  I love the design.  I shoot lefty as much as righty and couldn't be happier with the concept.  The execution, however, leaves much to be desired.

3.  I still like my scope, still use it frequently, still refuse to sell it for something optically better.  The mechanical adjustments have been spot on for me, and this is by far the most important aspect of a precision optic  - to me, at least.

4.  My scope rides atop my AIAWM, my favorite rifle.  I may soon move it to something else and put a Razer gen2 3-18 on the AI.  I love the rifle, I deal with the scope; it is time I had a scope that I loved to shoot as much as I love to shoot the rifle.


There have been CA questions, there have been image quality questions, there have been eye box questions.  I like the scope, I like the features, but I cannot love the glass, it just isn't what it should be given the price point.

Ask what you wish, I have no skin in the proverbial game.  Once the gen3 is out, the gen2 value will plummet like the gen1 did.  I won't be selling this scope, partially because I like it, partially because i'll lose too much.  When this one goes, it will be replaced with an S&B 3-20 or a Tangent Theta.

They tried hard, I get that, and the scope is great at some things; but at $3k, it should shine much brighter than it does.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - June/09/2015 at 09:37
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