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Kahles K624i vs... everything else

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2012 at 16:40
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Though I am no optics physicist (lucky for us, we do have one of those around), I have sent many, many rounds down range, sometimes from the comfort of a bench, sometimes in far, far less hospitable circumstances and environments.

In that time, I have had the privilege to use some of the very best rifle scopes yet made and fielded, whether civilian or military.  Below are a few thoughts of the scopes pictured.  As specified, I am no optics PhD, I do have 20/20 vision, and I do understand the effective and efficient use of all optics pictured.


Starting at the end closest to my face, I am OK with "rapid focus" eye pieces, but am perfectly happy with non-rapid (or "traditional") eye pieces.   I would contend that anyone frequently messing with the focus is doing something wrong.

So, on the eye piece, the 3 on the right are rapid-set, the Premier is not.

To take a quick step back, from left to right:
Premier Heritage 3-15X
Kahles K624i (6-24X)
Zeiss Diavari FL 6-24X T
Hensoldt 3-12X

Obviously, all are not equal scopes in most capacities.  All have been box tested (the Premier and the Hensoldt have short more than a few of my beloved box test: 20+ rounds, dope change between each shot, with at least 3 rounds in each of 4 corners, and at least 5 in the center.)

All have external, "target" knobs, all have illuminated reticles, all but the Zeiss are FFP, all are 34mm tubes and 50+ mm objectives.

Eye Box (exit pupil)

"Eye box" or exit pupil is the ease of getting behind the scope and getting a good sight picture.  This is a function of many variables, few of which I can do justice to here, but a good eye box is quite easy to appreciate, especially if you shoot from irregular positions.

On eye box, Hensoldt has long been my favorite.  By "favorite", I mean it is genuinely difficult to get behind the scope and not have a very clear, crisp image that almost seems to extend beyond the limits of the tube.  When an image is perfectly presented with very little effort, that allows me to concentrate on the shot and not the sight picture, that is a good thing.

Of the scopes in the line-up, Hensoldt and Kahles are by far the best.  The Zeiss and Premier are no slouch, far from it; but the image doesn't seem to float exactly where it should be.  The Premier takes a bit of thought, the Zeiss less so, but the Kahles and Hensoldt take no perceptible effort: get on the gun, look through the scope, beautiful every time.

So, of the Hensoldt and Kahles: I can't call it.  Both are astounding in their forgiveness.  The Hensoldt might beat by the slimmest of margins, or it could be that I have a bias, having put many rounds down range under the Henny and just a few under the Kahles.



Turrets:

The USO EREK (not pictured) has been my favorite elevation turret since my first click on one, that remains true to this day.  On the EREK, the spacing is perfect, the resistance is perfect, the view from the scope is very clear and very logical.

So, second place now goes to the Kahles.  The clicks are very clear, very well defined, and the zero stop is very easy to set and use.  The turret does what it should, without reinventing the proverbial wheel.

Additionally, in the conversation of turrets: the parallax setting of the Kahles is by far the best system, a second drum under the elevation turret rather than a separate turret on the left side of the saddle.  As an ambi- shooter, shooting a standard scope (parallax on the left) left-handed sucks. Hard.  The Kahles setup is ideal, offering very positive use without contorting or coming off the scope.

My singular complaint on the parallax turret is the detent at each yardage marking (which didn't align well with actual yardage.)  It is a minor gripe, but if Kahles wants to improve their setup a bit, I'd recommend removing the detents and going to a smooth run from top to bottom.

Also concerning turrets (Zeiss', specifically), I am still no fan of the locking turrets.  I've tried to like them, maybe I'd like other maker's version, but Zeiss' locking turrets are not my friend.  Perhaps if this were the only scope I used, I'd fall in, but it ain't, I don't.

Lastly for now, the Kahles reticle.  This scope has the following reticle



I like the reticle. Allot.  Figuring out the center took a few minutes to really "get" the subtentions, but it makes sense with a little thought.  

Stupid as it might sound, I like numbers on the vertical mil markings.  Some "christmas tree" reticles lack this, and counting can be error-prone under pressure.  

Reticle illumination is another matter.  Though low light illumination was good, only the horizontal subtensions illuminate.  I've always been okay with just a center illumination, or with whole reticle illumination, but am somewhat confused by this setup.  I guess the thought is that low light shots won't be taken with dope on the reticle.

Lastly on turrets, the mechanical indicator of second rev is a great thing.  My Premier doesn't need it (it only has one rev) the Hensoldt has lines (which suck) but the Kahles has a mechanical "nipple" that pops out on the second elevation revolution.  I like it.  (In stark contrast to the Premier LT window showing a "1" or "2" which works fine - but only if you can see the numbers.)


Final thoughts on the Kahles: new favorite scope.  The turrets are great, the parallax is great, the view is fantastic, and aside from the unusual illumination setup - the reticle is very, very usable and clear.


In the field in 2 weeks, more to follow.




Edited for dead link to reticle


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - December/07/2012 at 10:05
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2012 at 17:28
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Apples and Oranges.

"How bout them Apples?"

R u a Lefty???

What is your conclusion on FL vs K in low light???


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2012 at 19:26
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Thanks for the review. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2012 at 19:47
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Good review, RC.  Thank you.  EXCEPT... now you've thrown a monkey wrench into my "best laid plans" for a next scope.  I was not even considering a 6-24... until now. 
Sometimes... good is bad...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2012 at 07:51
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Wow, great review. There is enough cash value right there to aid in fiscal cliff resolution!!! LOL. Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2012 at 08:48
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Nice review RC. I am looking forward to your field results.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2012 at 08:52
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Well done, RC. Standing by for more AAR's. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2012 at 09:12
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Great writeup
This new Kahles stuff is simply outstanding.
We should have a K624i in this week but with the mil 4 reticle where only the center crosshair section illuminates like a S&B

I am quite anxious to do a side by side compare of it vs the K312II
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2012 at 10:11
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Fantastic review, love to hear about the complete setups as well (scope/rifle).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2012 at 14:54
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I enjoyed the review,answered some of my questions on my next build.Looking forward to the next segment.....Thanks RC

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2012 at 20:18
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I had already made up my mind on what my next scope was going to be.  Now, between you and ccoker:
 
 Whuutt...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2012 at 07:21
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Nive write up.  Good to hear kahles is making a comeback per say
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2012 at 08:57
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what type of rings on the Kahles?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2012 at 10:16
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Spurh mount on the Kahles, I am a fan.  I also like the AAdmount (Hensoldt) and would probably buy that for a new scope, especially now that he has incorporated the level as well.

Rifles are, from left to right:

Remington 40X 308, lefty in a Manners mini-chassis T5-A with a Rock 5R barrel at 20"
Remington 5R 300WM in a McMillan HTG with Badger bottom metal
Remington PSS 308 in AICS 1.5 (most accurate stock barrel I have ever shot! Many 2-3 inch 5-shot groups at 600 yards.)
AR10 260 (was mine originally, sold to SWFA, almost auctioned for an unbelievable deal, I bought it back.) Iron Ridge lower, hydraulic buffer, BADASS selector, Wilson trigger, Armalite match upper.

Kahles and Helsoldt are in unimounts.  On a bolt gun, the Spurh is the only unimount I have used that I liked - that was low enough for no extreme checkweld issues.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2012 at 15:31
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Very nice review!!

Thank you for sharing this.


Ken
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2012 at 18:07
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Welcome to the OT Ken,really nice to see Kahles making a run at the top again.Used to be a super company, reading lots of great things about the new American importer Excellent
 
Good luck with your endevor & Thanks for your service Salute
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2012 at 18:53
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yep..
Ken is the real deal and has been a fantastic guy to work with.
I have had numerous conversations with him and believe they are in this for the long haul.

There are a lot of Kahles fans here..


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2012 at 21:49
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Nice review, Jeff!

Now, you just need to add a Steiner MT 5-25X56 and a March FX Tac 5-40X56 to complete your 34mm Grand Slam!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2012 at 10:34
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Hello and thank you for the warm welcome,

My wife and I run Khaybes together and we are both avid shooters/ hunters etc. Any questions or comments, maybe something you would like to see in the Kahles line never hesitate to contact us.

Thanks again!
Ken 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2012 at 13:24
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We're glad you're here, Ken!

I'm glad someone is handling Kahles here in the States again! I've always been a huge Kahles fan!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2012 at 16:39
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

We're glad you're here, Ken!

I'm glad someone is handling Kahles here in the States again! I've always been a huge Kahles fan!


+1. Kahles deserve to get back in the game.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2012 at 17:21
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Are you a lefty???


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2012 at 20:42
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Ambi.
The 40X is my only lefty. I am quicker with a righty - shooting lefty or righty.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2012 at 10:11
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

Apples and Oranges.

"How bout them Apples?"

R u a Lefty???

What is your conclusion on FL vs K in low light???



No conclusion yet.  In fading light, both seem quite good.  I will have them in the darkness and sending rounds next weekend, will have more to add.





Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Nice review, Jeff!

Now, you just need to add a Steiner MT 5-25X56 and a March FX Tac 5-40X56 to complete your 34mm Grand Slam!
It was between the Kahles and the Steiner, Steiner wasn't available and I had heard great things on the Kahles (and nothing on the Steiner.)  As a shooter that has had little success with 20X optics, I was wary of anything greater than 15X (entirely personal preference) but have been very pleased with the Kahles.

The Steiner might be in my future, depends on many variables, not least of which is scope availability.  And I need a tank to put under it, it is heavier than anything I already own, and the Premier is a beast, hard to imagine heavier - or the need for it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2012 at 11:37
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You've got a helluva nice stable of tactical scopes already; that's for sure, Jeff! I'm pretty sure my parents paid much less for the house I was raised in than the $ value represented in the above pics!
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