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Kahles Helia CL or Swaro PH

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 08:50
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I've been doing some searching and I have found a Kahles CL 3-10x50 and a Swaro PH 3-12x50 at decent prices. The Kahles is NIB and the Swaro is factory demo. The Swaro is four bills more than the Kahles, but I also understand why the Kahles can be had somewhat cheaper right now than usual. I also know that the Kahles is a 1" and the Swaro is a 30mm tube. Should I just jump on the Kahles and stop trying to analyze this so much?Whacko Is the Swaro that much better optically for the price difference?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 09:09
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Optically, I think they're very comparable. At $400.00 less, the kahles is by far the better deal on paper.  The biggest thing that scares me about kahles is their lack of CS in the USA.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 09:20
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Gamo has taken over the CS in the USA, think its fine now, they said something at SHOT about it.

 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 09:33
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Yes, Gamo has taken over the CS role for Kahles, but whether that is a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen, as the relationship is too new.

As for the comparison, you won't likely notice a nickel's worth of difference between those two scopes optically.  So, it comes down to whether you're more willing to save the money and risk the CS ramifications that may or may not ever become an issue, or if you'd feel more comfortable knowing if you ever do need service, you'll be in very good hands, as Swaro has very good CS.

If it were me, I'd probably get the Kahles.  Though there are no guarantees in life, chances are pretty good that you'll never need any service on the scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 09:43
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I've not owned Kahles, I but I do own Swaro, it is a fantastic scope.  If Kahles is as good optically, I too would probably go that route.

Get what you want; if you don't, you'll always wonder - and probably regret.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 10:02
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I have not owned either one myself, but I did look at a Kahles last weekend and was AMAZINGLY impressed by the optics. It has been many years since I have looked through a Swaro, but if they are far better than the Kahles I looked at then I'd be willing to look at purchasing one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 10:08
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Originally posted by Browning Browning wrote:

I have not owned either one myself, but I did look at a Kahles last weekend and was AMAZINGLY impressed by the optics. It has been many years since I have looked through a Swaro, but if they are far better than the Kahles I looked at then I'd be willing to look at purchasing one.


So basically that is why I'm asking for your guys opinions on this decision. I know that my wallet would be a lot happier, but I'd be willing to dig in if the Swaro is far superior. Thanks for your opinions so far!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 10:18
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I own scopes from both series.  The Swaro is not far superior.  To my eyes, it isn't even superior; they are about the same.  But, everyone sees things differently.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 10:41
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Kahles. take the 4 bills an spend it on ammo,u will have a great scope ,and shoot better to boot!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 11:03
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Well if Gamo is the new distributor, I see Kahles problems will persist.  I have tried to contact Gamo numerous times by email and phone for over a month.  I still have not heard anything back.  Its been very frustrating.  I was going to buy a Kahles but I am almost ready to spend the extra money and buy a Swari.

Steve
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 12:06
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I own two Kahles scopes and one Swaro, optically they are a wash.  I've never had to use either CS, but if I were to buy one of these scopes today, I'd have a hard time buying the Kahles knowing they lack any CS.  If kahles gets their act together, it would be a different story, but for now it scares me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 12:22
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Have both the CL and the PH.  I like them both.  I am starting to prefer the first focal plane reticles of the Kahles C/CB/CBX and Swaro PH series over the second focal plane reticles of the CL.  Optically, they are the same to my eyes..  Depending on what caliber rifle you're putting it on, the Swaro has the recoil proof eyepiece, but it also has about 3/8-1/2 inch less eye relief.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 12:50
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Kahles CL-line glass is fantastic. Swarovski glass is also fantastic. The Kahles CL is a bit more compact than the PH.
 
I would buy the Kahles for $400 less, unless you absolutely need the 12X top end.
 
I own and operate both Swarovski and Kahles scopes. I have Kahles CL, CS and CB line scopes. The Kahles is a very, very good targeting device and the view through the glass is very nice as well. I have not needed Kahles customer service, and I have them mounted on 338WM and 300 Roy A-Bolts. It seems the Kahles can hold up to magnum recoil at those levels, anyway.
 
Hope that helps.
 
Texas
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 13:11
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Either way, you'll have a nice scope.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 13:29
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Brodeur brings up a good point to consider.  Do you prefer a first focal plane reticle (magnifies with the target image -- PH) or second focal plane reticle (non-magnifying -- CL)?  Neither is necessarily "better," and both have pluses and minuses, but answering that question may go a long way toward making your decision for you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 13:59
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Every scope that I have ever owned has always been SFP, so really that is all I know and what I'm used to. Just by reading articles here and there, I have always gathered that the majority seem to prefer a scope with SFP instead FFP when using a scope for big game hunting. I didn't mention before, but the Kahles I'm looking at has the 4a reticle. I've looked through one and liked it, but I have never used a scope with 4a out in the field. From what I read...the majority seem to think that this is a good reticle for hunting. I don't know..... ???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 14:05
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4A is an awesome reticle.  Like a heavy plex without the thick bar in the 12:00 position.  Depending on the magnification range, I sometimes like FFP reticles for big game hunting, because I can dial up reticle thickness in low light.  The reverse to that is the reticle can get pretty thin on low power, which may or may not be an issue to you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 14:26
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Help me out here....the 4a on the Kahles, is it like the reticle #4 on the Zeiss where it narrows to the 12:00 position when magnified? I looked through a Zeiss Conquest 3x12x56mm that did that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 14:31
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Not sure I'm following you on "narrows to the 12:00 position when magnified," but all #4 and 4A reticles are very similar.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 14:44
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To me on the Zeiss #4, the thick bars opened up when I lowered the magnification and closed up when I cranked the magnification up. Does that make sense?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 14:46
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If your used to the plex reticles, the 4a and 4 are very easy to transition to.  As of late, I think I like the 4a reticle the best.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 14:47
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I would think it would be exactly the opposite on a FFP reticle.  On a FFP reticle, the bars would appear to become further apart and get thicker with more power.  Regardless, all #4 reticles in FFP will react the same way when you change the power.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 14:53
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I think the Zeiss Conquest are SFP like the Kahles CL. That's why I was curious.......
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 15:14
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Yes, Zeiss Conquests and Kahles CL are both SFP.  Zeiss Victory VM/V series, however, are usually FFP, but some SFP.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 15:53
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I have a Swaro and a Kahles, for 400.00 less I would get the Kahles and never look back....They are both great scopes. If you feel you really want the 12x then buy the Swaro. Then you never have to think about it again.....
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