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just learned about poi , bummed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 10:36
thegoaty View Drop Down
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so, inexpensive scope have poi shifts from zoom, also some higher dollar ones do too apparently from what ive been told.. so i would like a around two hundred dollar or less scope that doesn't have the poi change from adjusting the zoom power. im interested in the sightron s1  , burris fulfield 2, vortex diamond back, or maybe a weaver v-10. i would like 3-9x40 or 2.5-3.5-10x40 preferably with mil dot or maybe a bdc reticle. will any of those zoom in and out without poi shifts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 10:39
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Chief Sackscratch

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First to clarify, not all inexpensive scopes have POI changes, faulty ones yes.  I have used several Vortex Crossfires with no POI shift at all.  Right now if I where in your shoes the Vortex Viper 2-7 is the only thing I'd look at.  Plenty of magnifications for your original state goals from the other thread.  Don't frown at 7x its more than usable and the glass i fantastic for the price. Your getting a $400 scope for a little over a buck and a half, great deal
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 10:48
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I've had several cheap scopes and have never had this problem. I think you probably just got a faulty scope. That being said, I've got a Burris FFII and a second one on the way. They are amazing scope for the money. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 10:54
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you know its funny , i used my laser bore sighter last knight when i got home and tried my other rifles. i have a marlin 22 with a cheap bushnell spotsman , the poi shifts some but not too bad. i have a ncstar just a a back up scope it does have some poi shift also. i have a redfield revolution an my 30-30 that i thought was a pretty nice scope but the poi shift on that one when zooming changes alot! the bushnell xlt poi shift is somewhere between the really cheap ones and the redfield revolution. i kind of wish i never checked for this because ignorance is bliss. perhaps i will look into that vortex viper some more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 10:56
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Sorry to sound like a broken record here, thegoaty, but that little Viper is still the way to go, and comes in a BDC.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 10:57
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Originally posted by thegoaty thegoaty wrote:

so, inexpensive scope have poi shifts from zoom, also some higher dollar ones do too apparently from what ive been told.. so i would like a around two hundred dollar or less scope that doesn't have the poi change from adjusting the zoom power. im interested in the sightron s1  , burris fulfield 2, vortex diamond back, or maybe a weaver v-10. i would like 3-9x40 or 2.5-3.5-10x40 preferably with mil dot or maybe a bdc reticle. will any of those zoom in and out without poi shifts.
 
 Wish it were that cut and dry but the only way to see if a scope will have a POI problem is to try it.  The S1,FFII,and V10 have been around a long time(still no guarantee of no POI problem)so I'd say if there was a consistant problem with them we'd know by now.  As far as the Diamond Back goes it hasn't been around near as long but so far so good.
 
 +1 on the Viper.


Edited by 300S&W - March/01/2011 at 10:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 10:59
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Chief Sackscratch

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Are you actually shooting and verifing POI change or just using your Boresighter????

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 11:04
thegoaty View Drop Down
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just using laser boresighter at about 25yds
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 11:06
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it should be equivalent.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 11:11
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Chief Sackscratch

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Its not, without rounds on paper you can't 100% say that for certain.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 11:16
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You sure you aren't slightly moving the rifle when you are turning the magnification ring? Or it isn't paralax playing with your eyes?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 11:18
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Just your head moving up down or side to side slightly could make it look like a POI shift when using a bore sighter.  You really do need to shoot and see.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 11:21
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most of them i have on a bipod.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 11:22
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ive never had any luck with any sort of boresighter. ive had way better luck pulling the bolt out of the rifle and line a target spot up @100yards with the bore and adjusting the scope to the target spot. i can usually get my scopes in the bull with 3 shots or less.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 11:25
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Chief Sackscratch

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The way you are doing it you can't be 100% sure its not the gun moving when you twist the power ring, shoot the gun then you can claim POI change.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 11:26
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plus as i turn the power ring i can watch the laser dot walk up and down the vertical reticule in coloration to the power level as it is increased and decreased. its not like the dot is moving all over the place, as i increase power it moves straight up , when i decrease the power it moves straight down. no side to side movement at all and I'm being very careful to keep a good cheek weld and it on a bipod.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 12:30
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That's because you have a SFP scope.  If the dot is not perfectly centered in the crosshair it will move up and down relative to the reticle as the reticle changes subtension.

I'll say it again--check it at 100 yds at an actual object.  Or, use a collimating type of boresighter with a grid.  What you are doing is meaningless.  There's likely nothing wrong with your scope.


Edited by Jon A - March/01/2011 at 12:33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 13:03
thegoaty View Drop Down
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hmm, first one to say that , but now that i think about what your saying it makes a lot of sense. i guess its like the reticule is on a track and moves back and forth so as your doing this it does move the laser dot but in real life you would also adj the reticule to target also so then it would be corrected. this kind of makes a lot of sense. im looking at this in the mechanic/ engineer type perspective and not necessarily real life.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 13:17
thegoaty View Drop Down
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thanks john a , what you said seems to have clarified everything up for me in one simple post.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 13:36
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Tip Stick

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I personally don't like boresighters.  Don't trust them either.  Shoot the damn thing and let us know what happens!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 13:50
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Don't forget to take it out.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 14:54
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+1 on the shoot to find out. However as most have pointed out variables have come a long way in the past 20 years and their reliability is much better than in my youth so as to not really be an issue anymore unless you just get a real lemon in which case the mfg. should replace it. In the 60's and 70's this was the reason so many kept using fixed power scopes. At 25 yds you may be experiencing some paralax issues if you are not keeping your head perfectly still if and the scope is adjusted for 100 or more yds. Shoot it a 100yds and see if there is a noticeable change. Just my $.02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 14:59
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One reason I have a grid type boresighter is to ALWAYS check a scope just after it goes on a rifle.  New scope, used scope, inexpensive or not.  I put the crosshairs on the grid, run the magnification ring and watch the crosshairs intersection at the grid pattern and see if the POI moves.  A little is OK more is not.  What matters is how it shoots.  If the difference is noticeable on target, than it's off to be fixed, or it's gone.  Like others, I have some question in my mind that you are maybe having some hold the rifle steady problems as you move the ring.  I have a laser boresighter too, but I never use it for POI work.  If you don't have a grid style boresighter, I don't think you have any choice but to shoot at say, low, middle, and upper magnifications and see what is happening.  The laser is fine for general "get-it-on-the-paper" but that's all.  Really any boresighter is mostly good for that.  The real truth is the truth at the target.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2011 at 15:27
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Ive learned a lot about scopes the last couple days , thanks for all  the input.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2011 at 00:35
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Originally posted by thegoaty thegoaty wrote:

hmm, first one to say that , but now that i think about what your saying it makes a lot of sense. i guess its like the reticule is on a track and moves back and forth so as your doing this it does move the laser dot but in real life you would also adj the reticule to target also so then it would be corrected. this kind of makes a lot of sense. im looking at this in the mechanic/ engineer type perspective and not necessarily real life.
 
 
Not true, you were directed in this direction by SVT Tactical in the 7th thread of this post and by many others since then. You just did not listen dude!!
 
Quote of SV Tactical:

Are you actually shooting and verifing POI change or just using your Boresighter????



Edited by 8shots - March/02/2011 at 00:36
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