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Is this really worth $250?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 08:54
LRSMike View Drop Down
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http://www.louisianaprecisionrifles.com/blueprinting.aspx


I read into it, and it makes sense, but is it something worth doing on a rifle you are possibly replacing a barrel on? I know its more of having a better fitting bolt into the chamber, and increases accuracy, but is it really necessary?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 09:03
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depends on what your goals for the rifle are.   I'd say 95% of people don't need it done because they'd never really benefit from it. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 09:12
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See that's what I was thinking Graham, with the purchase of the Tikka, I could start making changes to the Sendero into a more tactical rifle (obviously still be able to hunt). I was looking at getting a AI or A5 stock, and either a Shilen or Krieger barrel 1 in 10" twist, which should allow me up to 220gr bullets. I'm keeping the Elite 6500 on it for now, until I get my use out of it and learn how to shoot. 

I'm already planning on spending quite a bit on this rifle over the next year or so. Maybe one day I'll be on some of your guy's level with knowing and being able to shoot rifles really well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 09:20
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The best advise I can tell you is to not try to "buy" skill.  I know people that spend like crazy doing everything they can to a rifle to make it more accurate and they themselves aren't.   Youd be well off getting a rifle you can afford to shoot a lot, like a 223 or 243 or something like that and practice practice practice.   Once you get all your fundamentals down then you worry about building ind going to the next step.  I can take my  $500 remington sps tactical, pretty much stock other than some home done work that anyone can do, and shoot better and more consitantly that several of my friends who spent thousands on their guns trying to get them to shoot better instead of spending money and time on the range behind the trigger. 
 
Id wager that most people's firearms can outshoot what they can produce but thats just my personal opinion.  If I were going to teach someone to shoot it start with a small centerfire round that could be shot allot without burning the barrel out and breaking the bank.  Trigger time does more, again IMO.


Edited by SVT_Tactical - November/08/2011 at 09:22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 09:23
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If your going to rebarrel why not true the action. why have a perfect fitted barrel with perfect demintions and have a action thats not percetly true to the new barrel.  I would do both and all I could to it at the same time. to build the best I could out of what i have. I promis it will be money well spent.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 09:27
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Crap. I just lost my entire post. But here goes again: William Roscoe, the owner of LA Precision, would be the best guy to talk to about what the best strategy is. He seems like a stand-up guy with a great reputation. I won't rewrite everything, but maybe just bedding the rifle will be a better investment and he knows his stuff on that.

Other options:

1) Sell the rifle and replace it with a better out-of-the-box such as the Rem. 5R

2) Go custom action - all tolerances machined correctly up front instead of being corrected afterwards
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 09:30
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Duly noted. I should just apply the same fundamentals at work as I do at home. I have never had any issues with M4(AR 15) or a crew-served(M240B). Somehow, I don't feel the same when shooting the bolt gun. I use the Big 4, steady position, breathing, sight picture and trigger squeeze. I do have some cheap federal ammo I could take out to the range today and work on them again. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 09:46
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Not to mention the stocks alone could provide a whole new rifle in how much they cost!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 10:37
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Hmmm, spend money to make the rifle more accurate or spend money to make the trigger puller more accurate.
Are you satisfied with how your 700 shoots? Can you shoot better than it groups?
If you need to replace the barrell, now would be a good time to have the action trued. If the barrel doesn't need to be replaced, now would be the time to wear it out till it needs a new barrel.
JMHO
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 10:46
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Wear that sucker out. Of course with a .308 that will mean 4000 or more rounds. Should take you at least 40 trips to the range...and don't report back until the barrel looks like a piece of black pipe someone pounded on with a sledge hammer.

BF does have a good point though as have others. It is also worth mentioning that there are all kinds of things that can make a rifle not shoot as well as it should - a nicked crown, too much fouling (mostly carbon) in the barrel, a slightly loose stock, a scope that doesn't quite fit the shooter or isn't set up properly. It's enough to turn a guy into a shotgunner sometimes. I would check some of those things. My last trip to the range, my 5R shot great @ 100 then sucked @ 300. Turned out the bipod mount was loose and as soon as I tightened it the problem went away.

You could always go out with someone who is more experienced who you know is a great marksman and have them shoot the rifle too. If they shoot bugholes then you can humbly apply all improvements to your technique and practice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 11:52
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If you are speaking of your .300 Win, I would start hand loading first, get very familiar with the rifle, and learn to shoot it well. Then someday when the barrel is shot, look into replacing it, true the action, (or get a custom one) and bed it into a nice stock. But that's just me. It may shoot bugholes already with a good handload.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 12:13
LRSMike View Drop Down
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It's already at .5 @ 100 right now. I know that when I start handloading it will get tighter. I want to brake it more than anything, but is it really worth the time and effort now with 700 rounds through it, read somewhere to expect maybe 1500 out of the barrel. See what I'm getting at?

Should I leave it as is and burn it out

OR

Start replacing things now.

I know I have the talent to shoot, I just have to find it Head Banger
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 12:22
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Based on past experience with Sendero's (7mm mag and 7mm RUM), yours should have great "out of box" accuracy possibly even rivaling the 5r. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 12:27
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I would leave it alone, when you're ready to upgrade then do something at that time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 12:46
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90%+ of the accuracy is going to come from the barrel.  If a gun has a decent barrel and it is chambered properly it is going to shoot well.  If you put a custom hand lapped barrel and it is chambered properly it is going to shoot great.

Truing the action will fix the little things like occasional little fliers and such.

It all depends upon the type of shooting you want to do. 

I am with Brandon though, if you are going to all the work why not.  At least square it up a little.  You can get the lugs lapped and face of the action squared up for around $70 from a lot of smiths. 

The nice thing about having one that you know is all squared up is then you can just worry about you and your handloads when shooting.  YOu don't have to wonder if that occasional flier is you, your ammo, or your gun.  At least you can take one of the variable out of it.

$250 seems a little steep to me.  This guy does it for $180.  http://www.bugholes.com/gunsmithing-services.php  I have him building me a new rifle right now.  He built one for Brandon and did a great job.


Edited by supertool73 - November/08/2011 at 12:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 13:13
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

90%+ of the accuracy is going to come from the barrel.  If a gun has a decent barrel and it is chambered properly it is going to shoot well.  If you put a custom hand lapped barrel and it is chambered properly it is going to shoot great.

Truing the action will fix the little things like occasional little fliers and such.

It all depends upon the type of shooting you want to do. 

I am with Brandon though, if you are going to all the work why not.  At least square it up a little.  You can get the lugs lapped and face of the action squared up for around $70 from a lot of smiths. 

The nice thing about having one that you know is all squared up is then you can just worry about you and your handloads when shooting.  YOu don't have to wonder if that occasional flier is you, your ammo, or your gun.  At least you can take one of the variable out of it.

$250 seems a little steep to me.  This guy does it for $180.  http://www.bugholes.com/gunsmithing-services.php  I have him building me a new rifle right now.  He built one for Brandon and did a great job.
 
Yup, He dose great work.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 13:51
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I agree with supertool that the barrel is the key ingredient. I have an M1 Garand which shot okay out of the GI barrel that it came with. But it shot much better when I rebarreled with a new Criterion...and those aren't even the cream of the crop compared to what you can get with a bolt gun. The only other changes I made - replacing the op rod spring and the hammer spring - were done well before and really didn't make any difference in accuracy.

One thing I've found is that the barrel on my 5R fouls significantly less. I don't know if its the stainless steel or 5R rifling or a combination of those things. Interestingly, the barrel is hammer forged and while I I have no proof of this never having the chance to borescope it beforehand, that probably meant no tool marks at the end of the chamber/beginning of the lands. I never bothered doing the tedious break-in I did with the Criterion or my Rem. LTR. So that will be the kind of barrel, such as a Rock or Obermeyer that I will use in the future.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 13:55
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Remington has obviously got the hammer forging down pretty well.  The 5r barrels they make are excellent.

FN hammer forges the SPR barrels as well and they are shooters. 

I guess it just goes to show that cut rifled, button pulled or pushed, or hammer forged can all shoot great when done right.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 15:34
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The Sendero I shoot, shoots about 3/4 to 7/8 inch. Thats with the standard Remington trigger. I suspect I could shink those groups if I had a better trigger.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 15:43
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Yeah I have the stainless barrel on my Sendero. I too, have thought about replacing the trigger with a Jewell or Timney. I think my issue is if I'm going to start dumping money into this rifle, is it worth switching out a barrel that's about 50 or 60% through its life? If I switch the barrel out, I'll want to switch the stock out too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 17:51
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Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

One thing I've found is that the barrel on my 5R fouls significantly less. I don't know if its the stainless steel or 5R rifling or a combination of those things.


From what I have read and been told that is one of the benefits of the 5R rifling. I also notice much less fouling on my 5R vs other SS barrels with conventional rifling.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 18:23
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Same here ,my 5R stays clean along time.I did a 7 hour seasoning, 80 round brake in & 280 rounds later the barrel is still spotless.Next time though I will have the barrel lapped[alot quicker & alot cheaper]
 
If you are doing 1/2 moa @ a 100 I would leave it alone.Sendaros are great rifles & do rival the 5R,most of the difference is the barrel.
 
I got an additional 1/4 moa from glass bedding,changing to a Seiko extractor & adding 9 interal ozs to the stock.There's a 2"x2"x6" hole under the recoil pad which I also switched out for a Sims pad.Me,I like the HS stock that comes with the 5R!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 21:03
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

The Sendero I shoot, shoots about 3/4 to 7/8 inch. Thats with the standard Remington trigger. I suspect I could shink those groups if I had a better trigger.
That is one upgrade, that if I was looking to change something, I wouldn't hesitate on. I put a timney trigger in one rifle, and it was like a whole new gun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 21:22
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Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

The Sendero I shoot, shoots about 3/4 to 7/8 inch. Thats with the standard Remington trigger. I suspect I could shink those groups if I had a better trigger.
That is one upgrade, that if I was looking to change something, I wouldn't hesitate on. I put a timney trigger in one rifle, and it was like a whole new gun.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2011 at 22:33
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I have to ask if the original question was regarding the action blueprinting and reinstalling a factory barrel after wards ? If that's the question, then my answer would be no. I read some here posting about 1/2 inch group rifles and less and my response would be to not touch a frickin thing until you shot out the barrel.

Edited by Roy Finn - November/08/2011 at 22:33
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