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Is The OT Anti Leupold???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:24
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Was that for TSX syndrome? Did I miss something?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:28
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Naw it's because I have the unfortunate dilemna of being UGA as well as GT. I'm an engineer, but also environmental work as well.

It's in the College Football Thread.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:50
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i dont think we are anti leupold, i think we really give stuff a fair shake and report what we see some of us see it good and some of us see it as well there is a lot of other choices that are better, i really feel that we are as fair as anyone can be.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 17:02
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Anti -Leupold???

 

My take on it is people on this forum generally take optics pretty seriously, hence the reason they belong to an optics site.  Leupold in the day made a very good scope at a good price.  Back when a hunter/shooter either had really cheap scopes or they could get an ok scope with the Weaver step up to Leupold and after that it was high end Euro stuff, the field was pretty small.

 

Today there is much more compition from brands like Nikon, Pentax, Weaver, Sightron, Bushnell, Burris have cought up with and in many cases supassed Leupold in performance.  I love the fact that Leupold is still any American company employing American workers, I love the fact that the company stands behind its product. If they were close and for me that would be within 50-60 dollars of the compition I'd pay for the Leupold just for the points mentioned above. However, I will not pay $100-$200 more for equal or less performance and I don't care if they are employing my great grandmother that is crazy.

 

Also, at least for me I hunt with people who thinks that the sun rises and sets on a Golden Ring and it drives me crazy. Show up in deer camp with a Nikon and people will give you strange looks and dont you dare have a Bushnell (even if it is an Elite) or a Weaver (even if its a Grand Slam) "cause those are junk scopes....So my main complaint is the people that are the opposite of this thread people that defend the product like its their own company. That and I can't stand the fact that all the magazines ( reason I joined this forum to get "real" evaluations from "real" people) tend to always place Leupold on top. Finally, all the marketing C$@p the best I saw was the "sorry Germany you still make great beer"  OMG I bet Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender  and Swarovoski were intimidated LOL PLEASE!!!

 

I think they still make a good scope and I will give them credit perhaps the prettiest scope out there. That new gray finish is absolutly beautiful.......but then again so is the glass in a Bushnell 4200 Elite

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 17:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 18:40
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Why is it mandatory that anyone provide evidence and facts for why they like what they like?  I interpreted 8shots' post as tongue in cheek; why automatically assume otherwise and berate a respected fellow member?  Different people place value on different things.  Depending on the intended use, in some cases, features like compactness or reticle design may be more important than pure optical performance. 

 

While I personally agree that scopes like the Elite 4200 are a better value than a comparable Leupold, the inescapable fact remains the 4200s, Monarchs, and Conquests of the world don't offer certain types of scopes that Leupold does.  Very few brands at any price point offer purpose built rimfire scopes, fixed high power competition scopes, and certain specialized reticles.  So, even if you're not a Leupy fan, if you want such options, do you sit and wait with a scopeless rifle, hoping maybe some day your favorite brand will offer them, or do you go ahead and buy a Leupold?

 

Although I can't think of a single Leupold product that I'd want to add to my collection beyond what I already have, I think Leupolds are neither as bad as their detractors would have you believe nor as good as their diehard fans would have you believe. 

 

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 18:48
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Ok, I'll give my 2 cents worth. I USED to be a full, fledged, die in the wool, Leupold guy. I have never had any problems with the 7 that I own. But, for a hunting scope, there are scopes out there that are DEFINATLY brighter, and clearer. I wished I would have bought a Bushnell Elite 4200, when I bought a new VX II, for my whitetail gun. And the Kahles (model ?) I looked through was noticebly clearer (to my eyes) than a VX III. I still use my VX III Premier Reticle boosted 14.5-35X-50mm. LRT for 1000 yard shooting, but am considering a Nightforce BR model. And I still use my 2-7X Compact for bear hunting. Also, the Mark 4 8.5-25X-50mm. LR/T on my ground hog gun, serves its pupose well. I believe the main reason for Leupold's majority in BR shooting, is plenty of MOA adjustment, and good quality target turrets. This forum educated me, and I am gratefull for the optics experts opinions, they really opened up my eyes. My next hunting scope will be an Elite 4200 or possibly 1 of the European brands.  Hey, Rifle Dude, the new March BR scope is a straight 40X. Supposively March is making a large variable target model for the long range guys.

Edited by Blackbird
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 19:04
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Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

I believe the main reason for Leupold's majority in BR shooting, is plenty of MOA adjustment, and good quality target turrets.

 

...or, more likely it's because Sightron, Weaver, and Leupold are the only companies that currently make fixed power high magnification benchrest scopes, and Sightron and Weaver don't make one above 36X while Leupy makes 40X and 45X models.  Some BR shooters don't use the scope's adjustments at all and may even glue the erector assy so it cannot move, instead opting for adjustable mounts.  Variable scopes aren't used in short range benchrest, unlike 1000 yd benchrest, where Nightforce variables dominate.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 19:12
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leupolds gold ring is a lot like a wedding ring, its a symbol, a symbol of something that costs a lot of money and after  few years it wont give you anything but attitude
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 19:13
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Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

Hey, Rifle Dude, the new March BR scope is a straight 40X. Supposively March is making a large variable target model for the long range guys.

 

You're right; I forgot about that one.  I believe that scope is made by a little known company called Koto Precision.  Doesn't seem to be very many of them in use yet.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 19:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 19:20
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WOW, $2100!  They must be really nice!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 20:35
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Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Cheap, he is giving you the around the bend.  Personally, I think it is wrong to post PMs. 

 

It's not only wrong to do ethically, it's also against one of our 6 rules of engagement.

 

6.  PM stands for Private Message.  Do not share PM's without the consent of the sender.

 

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 20:38
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Originally posted by Dogge r Dogge r wrote:

Don't take it seriously Dolphin, 8shots is just having some good natured fun with this one!

 

I would not assume that he is kidding, because Leupold's cost and status is relative to where you are.........he's in S. Africa.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 21:13
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doesnt leupold have a no outside the usa sales deal or am i confused?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2007 at 01:10
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Rifledude..............I did not suggest or make anything mandatory for die hard Leupy owners to support their own product with facts and evidence. But certainly, the attitude of a very few minority, prompt or cause me to put forth a challenge and say,,, OK then!! Tell us why these scopes are as good as you say they are!........Not only on this thread but others as well, we have all read something like;;;;;"Leupolds are the only way to go",,,,,,,,,,,"Can`t go wrong with them"..........."Bushnells? They suck!" (Yeah, in the old days).....or........"I wouldn`t own anything else but Leupold".....or......some other type of snobby comment, which of course they are entitled to make. I am also entitled to react with some questions. You have seen those types of remarks and know what I`m talking about....... Nothing wrong with liking their favorite scope product. But sometimes their attitudes become a little too snobby and pompice! What I`m saying to them is; just don`t tell us they are better, but explain to us why they are better. Is there something better in their optics or better in their design which makes them more durable, etc. etc. Why exactly, is Leupold the only scope you`ll ever own? Why are they better than 4200`s, the Monarchs and others? IMO, those are legitimate questions to ask...........If 8shots was joking around, then he could have fooled me! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2007 at 01:26
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Leupold makes a good but wayyy overpriced product.  It is not quality American labor vs cheap imports.  Loopy's prices are right there with the high-end euro imports.  I can assure you that Loopy's labor cost is no where near that of the europeans.

 

ranburr

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RifleDude is absolutley correct about short range BR shooters freezing the internals. But they still use a lot of the Competion 35X, 40X, and 45X models. You don't see many straight power scopes at 600 yard or 1000 yard matches, because you can't lower the magnification when the mirage starts to boil.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2007 at 07:12
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Whoo Whee, this ones been.....interesting.  

 

Lots of good post's, observations, opinions, as usual. Our passion for optics is really apparent in this thread.

 

Frankly, I feel "some" Leupold users on the INTERNET are too thin skinned when it comes to someone saying anything negative about Loopies, or even having the audacity to recommend a different scope over the Gold Ring....  You really don't have to say anything out right negative, you just don't go along with the Leupold camp and you are "branded" a basher...(shrug)

 

I live just south of Dolphin and can attest to his claims of this area of the SE being Loopieville!

I have been witness to some of the craziest, most infantile, cultist, behavior from some Leupold folks here than can be believed.... 

 

I'm talking arms folded, head shaking side to side, down right mule headed stubborn, spit on the ground when a Jap scope is mentioned, behavior.

 

That said, I've known some squared away Leupold owners LE/Military or semi-pro big game hunters that travel the globe, who continue to use Leupold regardless of cost, performance, etc. but solely that they believe in the Leupold scopes they use and the outstanding Leupold CS dept they have come to depend on, that is if they ever needed it. Most have not.

These people subscribe to the "dance with the one that brung ya" doctrine.... 

Amen and Amen!! I do the same on some stuff in my world...Ford pick ups come to mind..

 

I haven't personally witnessed or heard of any Leupold failures in my area lately. That's saying A LOT, because it seems everybody has one!!

I haven't seen, nor heard of a Leupold going south in my area "probably" in the past year or so. The last one I remember seeing was a Leupold Rifleman that went TU @ my range on a .300 WSM or .300 Win Mag, I don't remember.

It my have been a mounting issue then, I didn't get involved in "the fix"...I just heard the cussing from a few benches down........

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:08
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Why is it mandatory that anyone provide evidence and facts for why they like what they like?  I interpreted 8shots' post as tongue in cheek; why automatically assume otherwise and berate a respected fellow member?  Different people place value on different things.  Depending on the intended use, in some cases, features like compactness or reticle design may be more important than pure optical performance. 

 

While I personally agree that scopes like the Elite 4200 are a better value than a comparable Leupold, the inescapable fact remains the 4200s, Monarchs, and Conquests of the world don't offer certain types of scopes that Leupold does.  Very few brands at any price point offer purpose built rimfire scopes, fixed high power competition scopes, and certain specialized reticles.  So, even if you're not a Leupy fan, if you want such options, do you sit and wait with a scopeless rifle, hoping maybe some day your favorite brand will offer them, or do you go ahead and buy a Leupold?

 

Although I can't think of a single Leupold product that I'd want to add to my collection beyond what I already have, I think Leupolds are neither as bad as their detractors would have you believe nor as good as their diehard fans would have you believe. 

 

 

 

 

Ted, I think the thread of the forum was going in the direction that placed the burden of proof on those individuals posting, why they liked or disliked a Leupold, thus their reasoning.  Yes I over reacted to 8 shots post and I followed up indicating that I did.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:10
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

leupolds gold ring is a lot like a wedding ring, its a symbol, a symbol of something that costs a lot of money and after  few years it wont give you anything but attitude

Good one.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:27
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here is another thing to think about with leupold, you will never see a person who is very optics savy with a a leupold they always choose scopes made by some one else so, there are two type of people who generally buy leupold

 

1. The Hard core die hards, these cats have leupold underwear for christ sake these are the guys that spit the copenhagen out when you tell them your scope isnt a leupold, these are the guys who think its gold or nothing

 

2. The GreenHorns the new guys that dont  know anything about scopes and probably would barely be able to show you which end to look through, these poor souls get  there scopes because the salesman at the shop they bought there gun from told them oh yeah you will really like this 6.5x20 vxiii for whitetail hunting out of stand in a forest.of course they pay out the ass for the scope and then after a while of getting burned at dusk they start to explore other avenues and thats where we here at the ot come in.

 

Ot member- we are our own breed of cats, we are subjective to using leupolds in certain situations, but if we know we can use something else cause its better we will its only fair to give yourself the most advantages you can. sometimes a loopie will work sometimes it wont, i have had many gold rings in my life as has my family, but i dont think i will ever buy another one.

 

 

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Dolphin:

 

Actually, the purpose of this particular thread was to ask the question why this forum is considered hostile toward Leupold, by Leupold users, after countless "drive by snips" and accusations over the years I have been here.

 

Mike Yates, a devout Leupold guy and former solid contributor here, implied over and over that Leupold didn't get a fair shake on this forum. Sadly, I think Mike stopped coming over here because of that very thing. I'm speculating on that, so take it with a grain of salt.   

 

 

 

  



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:41
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Gentleman, gentleman please...... The reason why I do not give any technical support for saying a Leupold is the best is because leupold owners do not know about all that technical stuff. We do not need to know about that technical stuff either, that is what we pay the Leupold technicians for. They know everything and just put it into the scope. That way we can get on with the business of shooting......

 

Man, I can't keep a straight face typing this bull any longer. This was really just a joke that I could not resist. I am really not a snob and do not think any one brand or product is better then the other, nor that affordability makes one person better then the other.

 

I do apologise to anyone I may have upset. In my defence I did put a clown moticon at the end of my thread, which should have indicated my frame of mind.

 

And Big Squeeze, my handle do indeed come from taking 8 shots at a Barbary sheep and I was using a Leupold scope of all things.

 

Once again I humbly apologise for any hornets nest I may have bumped, but it was intended as a joke.

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I think that in reality, There's not a single Brand of scope that does not get dogged on in some fashion, there's always a reason, with Leupold it's the overprice for what you get. if they cost about 200 to 300 less in some cases there would be no discussion. That gold ring ain't worth 300 dollars, and neither is the name.
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