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Is The OT Anti Leupold???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 15:29
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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It seems to me this forum gets jacked up from time to time for being "Anti Leupold" or down on Leupold.

 

There's a thread here on the Rifle Scope forum as I write where a gentleman states....

"It baffles me sometimes how anti-Leupold this site is and question some of the advice given because of that."

Mike650

 

Really, Mike??  I seriously don't believe that, Sir, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

Not trying to call you out at all Mike, but your response in the other thread just got me thinking and it seems indicative of what some other folks have said in the past.

 

Is recommending something "besides" Leupold considered "bashing" by those that love Leupold? 

Is our advise tainted because of our hatred for the big L?? (I say this in jest.)

Lastly, has anyone here really laid the wood to Leupold??

(Besides Rancid Coolaid, that is)   His displeasure with Leupold has been duly noted, but as far as the whole forum knocking Leupold, I say no.  

 

Rather, I have seen some Leupoldites that have made outlandish claims concerning Leupold's quality, reliability, 100% All American built, etc.

 

What say you??

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 15:47
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mike650

 

Hum, you question the advise given by some just because they don't like Leupold? I am not certain I understand that logic. My chief complaint with Leupold is their price. I guess now my second complaint is the sensitivity of pro-Leupold folks. I really don't see how someone can question another's advise based upon them giving their opinion. If someone feels that the advise given is too harsh, biased or inaccurate, question it by all means.



Edited by Roy Finn
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 15:48
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When I first started reading this forum (about a year and a half ago) it definitely seemed there was an anti-Leupold bias.  Since that time most people who challenge Leupold performance have been more careful to point out that Leupold makes a rugged, optically acceptable product with an excellent warranty but at an inflated price based on the company image.  Others have pointed out that there is a price to paid for "Made in America"  products versus cheaper imports.  I think that what I have taken away from all this is not to accept a product based on face value or past performance when there may be as good as or better value alternatives available.  It is also getting more difficult to determine just what Made in America really means if some components are sourced overseas but assembled in the US.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 15:56
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Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

When I first started reading this forum (about a year and a half ago) it definitely seemed there was an anti-Leupold bias.

 

Could you be more specific??  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 15:59
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It has nothing to do with being anti-Leupold IMO.  What it does have to do with is this is an objective forum, where people don't get paid to push one product or another.  I still laugh everytime I come across someone mentioning Field & Streams commentary that the VX-7 is the best top-end scope on the market...  Now, people here may try to justify their own purchases, but that is just part of the deal.   Personally, I will always mention what it is that I own if I feel is relevant to the topic from an objectivity perspective.

 

The fact is Leupold just doesn't offer good value in the market, at least for hunting riflescopes.  As a result, there is no compelling reason to buy them. 

 

If you like Leupold, go nuts.  Cost is real, value is perceived.

 

ND2000

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:04
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I would have to go back & re-read some of the posts, but it just sticks in my mind that Leupold was often talked about in very negative terms versus say Zeiss, Nikon, Super Sniper etc.  I think a lot of this was due to the fact that I was really a neophyte when it came to optics and had always had the impresssion that Leupold was the pinnacle - this was probably based on  discussions from others who used Leupold, magazine advertising and just general ignorance of other products.  So, it came as a bit of shock to read some of the comments.  My thinking was challenged once exposed to the alternatives - would still consider Leupold but it is no longer the be-all, end-all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:11
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Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

I would have to go back & re-read some of the posts, but it just sticks in my mind that Leupold was often talked about in very negative terms versus say Zeiss, Nikon, Super Sniper .

 

I can remember threads where Nikon's, Conquest's and even a few Super Sniper's have gotten a bloody nose or two on this forum, my friend. 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:15
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That's only because they suck as well because there not Elites.........grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:19
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HMMMM?????!!!!!!!!

I love my leupolds, I own two, I just think there are better deals quality for price wise. My Leo aint as good as my IOR, and both ran the same cost wise.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:28
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For years it seemed that the measuring stick in optics was the vari-x 3.Now with the elite 4200,Monarch and Gran slam hovering around,the value per dollar has kicked the Leupy to the curb.Why buy a vari-x 3 for $600 when you could pay $400 for a elite 4200,and have a better scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:39
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I think this forum, YOU PEOPLE, are the best of the best and offer the most comprehensive optic advise to new members and old a like. 

I have learned an enormous amount of knowledge from the good people here.

 

As Rancid would say, "we run a hot range here" and the regulars here won't pull punches on optics and call a spade a spade.

 

Volumes have been written here about Nikon's 6 month warranty on "refurbs" and their supposed bad customer service.

I say supposed because my Nikon's have been 100% good to go, but I believe the hordes that have complained....  Too many people complained to all be false.

 

 

Dale Clifford loathes the Conquest due to plastic turrets, caps and a back wards W/E adjustments. ( I concur on the plastic.)  Others say the Conquest is a "bottom feeder" of the great Zeiss scopes.

 

Judas Priest on a popsicle stick!!! My all time favorite, US Optics has been cracked on by Technika and Mike McDonald because they bought USO's and were disappointed in both the scopes performance and USO's CS dept, IIRC.

 

Most all optics have had their "tits in a wringer" on The OT at one time or another.

Not just Leupold.....     



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 17:29
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I hardly think I can be accused of being anti-Leupold. If anything I have spoken out on numerous occasions explaing the reasons that Leupold scopes are of value and should be the correct choice often due to the availibility of balistic reticles and the superior amount of internal adjustment found in certain models of Leupold scopes. Every scope I have that cost over $400. says Leupold on it and I have several including one currently being shipped from SWFA.

 

Re: Order Number:   165345

Arthur W:

Your order 165345, was received 10/11/07.

Your order included the following items Totaling $XXXX.

 Item        &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;  Qty      Qty      Qty  Expected
 Number    Description        & nbsp;         & nbsp;     Ord.     Shp.     Bck.    By  
---------- ------------------------------ -------- -------- -------- --------
LEU60030   Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 LR/T      1.00     1.00     0.00
           30mm Riflescope        &n bsp;     
           Matte, TMR, Side Focus, M1 Tar
           get Knobs, 1/p         &nb sp;     
ARMS40LP   ARMS #40LP Stand Alone Flip Up     1.00     1.00     0.00
             Rear Sight                    
           Matte, Low, .50 MOA         &nb sp;
SV TRADE   Trade                                  1.00     1.00     0.00
           Customer's Trade in Allowance
           Leupold 10X40 Mark 4         

Date Shipped  Via
  10/16/07    UPS - RESIDENTIAL GROUND SERVICE                   
               Tracking Number:        


 

Thank you for allowing us to serve you.
Remember, RifleScopes.com or call (972)SCOPE-IT, for all your Sporting Optic Needs.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 17:53
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From my personal standpoint and as a former 35 year Leupold owner, I wish to make it very clear that I do not dislike the Leupold scopes. For the most part, I don`t consider this forum to be "anti Leupold!" .................My main objection and others will agree, is that the Leupold scopes, for what you receive, are simply more expensive! Leupold owners have, do and will continue to pay more, for not only the gold ring, but for the name recognition "Leupold" as well........The same can be said for other products. One good example is tires. You simply pay more for the "NAME" recognition with Michelin or Goodyear as compared with other brands that will wear as long, are as good, but for sell for a cheaper price!.............................There are a few scopes on the market that simply equal and in some cases exceed the Leupold`s quality and they do so for less money! One of the best examples I can think of is the Elite 4200. Not to mention the Rainguard, the 4200 is equal to the VX111 in every possible way, is less money and in the opinion of many, exceeds the VX111 in optic quality!!..............That does not mean I or others hate Leupolds. However, it does mean that smart shoppers have other alternatives from which to choose. For those of you who think that we "bash" or hate Leupolds, it may sometimes appear so, but for the majority, I don`t think it`s true!...............To prove the point and as a little test here, I want to address all you diehard Leupold owners with this question,,,,,Exactly how does the VX111 exceed the quality of the 4200 or a Monarch? In optics? In construction? In durability? Please be specific with facts! For example; it seems to me that if one is going to pay $399 for a 3X9 VX111 as compared to $259 to $298 for a 3X9 Elite 4200, the Leupold IMO, should at least, have a porportional increase (25% to 35%) in quality improvements over the 4200 to justify the price increase! What exactly are those improvements???? In reality, the VX111`s are in no way 25% to 35% better than the 4200`s or the Monarchs....................NO! We don`t hate Leupolds on this site! But we can more than justify why we prefer other alternatives!!! However on the flip side, IMO, it would be more difficult for you diehard Leupold owners to justify to many of us why we should buy the Leupolds........... Over the years many shooters and hunters automatically assume that the Leupolds are the scopes to buy or the "go to" scopes! That comes from marketing, opinions handed down from generation to generation and personal opinion. Many diehards will never consider anything else. In the meantime, the market has drastically changed and is continually changing as other alternatives become more and more popular. The 4200`s and Monarchs are perhaps the two best examples of those alternatives!..................Personally, I`m not interested in the Leupold endorsements by any gun writer/author, shooting club, or military team. To sum things up and simply stated; if or when Leupold can produce a scope for about the same money, matching the quality alternatives, when in the market again, I will give the Leupold some due diligence!!!!...........Though I do wish my 4200 had that gold ring!!! That,,,is good looking!!!.......................
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 18:04
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Ufriend is anything but a Loopie basher.

Wes, you have recommended more Leupolds than any one on this forum, except maybe Dale Clifford.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 19:05
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I currently own three 1.75-6X32 Vari-X IIIs, my all time favorite Leupold scope, and a 6.5-20X40 VX-III, which I think is a great varmint hunting scope.  I don't plan to get rid of either, as both serve their intended purpose very well.  I have owned several others over the years, but have since sold or traded them for various reasons.

 

On the subject of Leupold, I look at it this way... while it isn't by any means my favorite brand of scope, and in many cases I do believe they don't offer the best price:performance ratio, I do think they have their niche in certain applications.

 

For example, if you want an extremely light (less than 12 oz.), extremely compact scope of decent quality for a super light mountain rifle and you don't want to pay the price for a Swaro 3-9X36 AV, Leupold has a couple good options.

 

If you have a rifle with a quarter rib, or rear iron sight mounted close to the receiver and need to limit overall scope length so the objective bell will clear without going to super high mounts, yet you want more magnification than the typical 20mm objective scope offers, Leupy has several compact scopes that will work without also presenting eye relief problems.

 

Want a scope with, say, a German # 1 reticle and don't want to pay $1000+ for a scope that has it?  Leupy can fix you up.

 

How about a fixed 40X or 45X scope specifically for benchrest shooting?  I'm not aware of anyone else besides Leupy who makes a fixed competition scope above 36X.

 

For whatever reason, most scope manufacturers no longer offer a 50 yd/meter parallax adjusted rimfire scope anymore.  Leupy does.  Most of those that are available are el cheapo scopes.

 

For small varmint shooting, you could do much worse than the VXIII 30mm tube LR models with side focus and Varmint Hunters reticle.  They are very useful for PD shooting -- the VH reticle works great for that application.  Until you break the $1000 barrier, there simply aren't many purpose-built scopes at a competitive price that are better suited to that purpose, and believe me, among the scopes owned by my shooting buddies and me, I've tried a huge selection of various makes and models.

 

When you factor in all the different finishes, reticles, sizes, and configurations, there simply isn't another scope manufacturer that offers more options than Leupold.  They may not have the best scope at the best price within a given category, but by golly, they have something to offer for every shooting endeavor you can dream up.  That is their biggest strength, and maybe at the same time, one of their biggest weaknesses.

 

One thing's for certain -- their warranty and CS is definitely not one of their weaknesses.  You can thank Leupy for all the other scope manufacturers who offer lifetime warranties.

 

I'm in no way a cheerleader for Leupold, as I have some of the same criticisms as others for some of their products.  But, I do believe it's a mistake to say that in every application there are better alternatives available for less money, when in some cases, as in the examples above, there are few to no other alternatives.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 19:46
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I'm not "anti-leupold" but I do think they are way over priced for what you get.

 

I'm not just talking out of the blue. As I type this I have a Vari XIII sitting on top of a Rem 7400 30.06. I hunted with that gun for years & always had to leave my stands before the big deer really moved unless it was the rut.

 

I paid almost 600$ for that scope including rings & bases. 15 minuts past official sunset its like looking into a black hole. I know its a lot of Leupold die hards & guys loyal to the scope, I was to after moving up from a Simmons to a Leupold but since I've bought 3 or 4 Zeiss scopes & a Kahles scope, I'll never buy another Leupold again in my life.

 

For roughly the same money a 3-9x50 Conquest makes my Leupold pretty irrelevant during those last minutes of shooting light.

 

Again I'm not "anti-Leupold", they are nice scopes but they are just way overpriced.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/17/2007 at 19:57
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Ted.............You are correct! Every buyer must evaluate their own needs and go with the best option available. True! Leupy does offer many options, many more than others. No disagreement there from me in that dept........My prediction for the future, is that others will one day offer as many options as the Leupolds do, in finishes, in recticles, in variable choices and so on! They too, will do everything possible to increase their market share. If you or I were running Bushnell, Nikon or any other competetor, that`s exactly what we would do!.......As for the warranty? I think that if Leupold had not started their lifetime warranty, others would have started to offer a lifetime warranty sooner or later. What Leupold did though, was to set the precedant for future lifetime warranties.............However, assuming a person`s needs fall in line, variables, reticles, finishes, etc. with the current offerings of 4200`s available, or the current line of Monarchs available? Then, if that`s the case, for the money, the VX111`s are not only overpriced, they are more than matched in quality as well...............
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I don't have anything against them either. I think Leupold's are great scopes. I used them in the service and never had any bad luck with them at all. I am not convinced they are the best value for the dollar however. 
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Originally posted by Graysteel Graysteel wrote:


I don't have anything against them either. I think Leupold's are great scopes. I used them in the service and never had any bad luck with them at all. I am not convinced they are the best value for the dollar however. 

i agree with you 100%

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 03:05
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I think somebody needs to read my entire post again not just the Leupold comment. Smile

New guy - old question...

Cheers!

-Mike


Edited by mike650 - September/27/2009 at 21:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 04:57
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Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

I think somebody needs to read my entire post again not just the Leupold comment. Smile

New guy - old question...

Cheers!

-Mike

 

Mike, I did reread the post and found nothing where anyone said anything negative about Leupold.

Did they?

Do you personally consider it "bashing" that the other guys recommended other scope brands in that thread? 

 

My question to you Sir, is what prompted you say this site is "anti Leupold" in that post?

You even went on to insinuate that our logic was flawed because of our dislike of Leupold.

 

I'm not picking on you Mike, but I'm just curious. Your not the first nor the last person to imply that this site dumps on Loopie. 

 

Heck, "Joe Hunter" even states in that thread that this site is down on Leupold....I don't get it.

 

I honestly think Leupold has gotten a fair shake around here. They have received their share of criticism and praise.....Am I wrong?? 

 

Thanks for the responses folks!!



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 05:36
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I'll be honest, I am anti-leupold.  When I look through one of their scopes I want to puke, I could eat sand for a week and sh*t better glass.  I'm a serious hunter and I need low light performance....you just don't get it with the leupys.  Now, they would definitely work fine for a gun that stays on the range, they are durable and have some models have a lot of moa (as previously stated) so they have their uses, but not for me.  If you like them....by all means get them they will work fine during the hours of the day when there is plenty of light.  You will find some anti-leupy people here like myself, but it is certainly not an anti-leupold site.  You will also find many anti-burris...nikon....too many to list.  All in all it's a fair site in my opinion, just a lot of honest people giving honest answers to questions that they may have had some experience with sometime in the past.  I have learned a lot on here in just a few months, I too used to think Leupold was the best b/c that's what I always heard from people.  Then I actually did some serious comparing and noticed how wrong I was.  Without this site I would never had discovered my beloved Kahles...thanks to many people on here.    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2007 at 07:35
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If you have one of the "big bangers" and need lots of eye relief, the the big L may be for you.  If you want a wider field of view and cleaner glass, then maybe not. The word has gotten flatter and people need to understand that.  The big L has more competition now, and this forum reflects that fact. There are applications where they have advantages.  Being the Cadilac in a world of BMWs, Lexus, Mercedes and a host of other high end companies that were not even around thiry years ago means that you can not rest on your name. 

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This site is not anti-Leupold. It is merely divided into two camps, those that own Leupolds and those that cannot afford Leupolds.

 

We who own them walk around with a smug look on our faces, and usually take our rifles out of our gunbags with a great flourish. We act  coy and pretend not to hear all the oohs and ahs when lesser non-Leupold mortals catch sight of the rising Golden Ring of the Leupold scope. Leupold owners do not mind that they pay a premium for the Great Name. We know what we have and quality do not come cheap.

 

Non_leupold owners again are in a class of their own. Some openly covet the Golden Ring and unashamedly grab a rifle adorned with a Leupold and looks through the glass. Suitably dazzled they walk around with that glazed looked dreaming of the day that they can afford one.

The more difficult non-Leupold owner is the closset-envier. He hides his envy behind a wall of technical jargon and talks about value-for-money, quality of glass, dawn or dusk visibility, eye-relief and all that stuff. He then throws all these strange names into the mix like Nikon, Burris, S&B, Zeis, Super Sniper and heaven forbid Bushnell. This is called deflection. They just want to deflect from the Golden Ring.

So in the end this site is united. Those that own a leupold, and those that would like to.

 

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If Leupold used real gold for that ring they might be worth the extra money.

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