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Is Nikon Team Primos a REAL Monarch?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 02:53
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What differences, if any, are there between the Nikon Team Primos scope and the Nikon Monarch? Based upon the fact that both boast 95% light transmission at 550nm , it certainly appears that the same lenses & coatings are being used. However, there is much more to scopes than transmissiveness, and it takes more than a visual comparison to detect the differences between scopes.  My questions:   (1)  Are the Team Primos scopes merely 3-9X40 Monarch wannabes, or are  they truly Monarchs?   (2) What are the differences, if any, between Team Primos and Monarch?   (3)   Does anyone really have the answers?   I sure hope so!  Thanks.

Edited by Dallas
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 05:17
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http://www.swfa.com/pc-9244-2119-nikon-3-9x40-team-primos-ri flescope.aspx

 

Ok, I'm not on staff @ Nikon USA, but I believe the "Team Primos" is just a promotion, like the "Team Realtree" gear Nikon sells.

 

http://www.nikondownload.com/models/pressrelease/TeamPrimos. doc

 

Welcome to Optics Talk.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 12:03
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The fact that the Monarch UCC 3-9X40 cannot be found in the Nikon website/lineup would certainly suggest that the Team Primos is the same scope with the BDC reticle substituted for the Nikoplex resticle. Although the MSRP is about $300, in the "real world" it usually sells for less, and roughly in the same general price bracket as the Elite 4200 3-9X40 and VX-1 3-9X40, etc..  3-9X40s represent the most competitive group of scopes in the market, i.e., 3-9X40 is far and away the most popular power/size in the market, found in every store on the planet, and produced in multiple versions by virtually every scope manufacturer. It therefore makes sense that you're correct that the Team Primos  is likely a promotion.

As usual, you're knowledgeable and well-read. The website you provided is very helpful. If I could find the offical specifications on the UCC version, and compare them to the specs found in the SWFA websiste for the Team Primos (the current Nikon site doesn't contain either scope), I believe that it would settle the issue. The weight and eye relief, along with the physical dimensions, might be enough for verification.

Does anyone else wish to weigh in?

Chris - are you out there?
 


Edited by Dallas
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 12:15
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I'm thinking the scope I linked for you is a real deal Monarch, but I'll be happy to alert the staff @ SWFA about this thread and hopefully get you a more definitive answer, my friend.

 

Pity some scope manufacturers have discontinued the classic 3-9x....

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 12:25
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I just spent a week deer hunting with a 3-9x40 Monarch, fine scope for the money. It is bright and the clarity is very good for the money.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 13:26
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Cheaptrick:

I know that you're absolutely correct about the discontinuance of some of the 3X9s. I've noticed that the 3-9X isn't as popular as it used to be among the more serious shooters and the scopes they purchase.  2.5-10X, 4-12X, etc., and a host of other magnifications have supplanted the 3-9X in some uppper/more expensive lineups. I still often go with a 3-9X on my guns because it often suits my needs perfectly, and usually represents the sweet spot in terms of price. For example, what is the biggest difference between a 2.5-10X scope and a 3-9X scope? The answer, of course, is a big difference in price. It's much like the price difference we often see between scopes with 50mm vs. 40mm objective lenses. A big jump in price, but very little increase (if any) in the cost of manufacturing. As you pointed out, it's a matter of promotion, ie., marketing.

We can see what Nikon is doing with the Team Primos moniker. I just need to be certain that the Monarch UCC scope wan't de-contented, internally redesigned, or cheapened in an effort to compete in this segment of the market while wearing the Team Primos moniker. I realize that it is just as likely that no changes were made, other than the reticle. After all, it costs money to alter the production process, and this cost can sometimes exceed the savings found in redesigns and cheapened parts. Still, I would like to be sure.

Thanks for the help.


Tahqua:

Yep, the 3-9X Monarch is a very nice scope. No doubt about it.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 14:12
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I sure hope that the Team Primos are in fact the Monarch. You will do yourself well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 14:48
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I sent a PM to "Brady" who is on the SWFA staff and asked him to help us out.

He may not see my PM until tomorrow........

 

As an aside, the 3-9x Bushnell 4200 (soon to be discontinued as well) is worthy of consideration. 

http://www.swfa.com/pc-7280-185-bushnell-3-9x40-elite-4200-r ifle-scope.aspx

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 15:16
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Yes, the 4200 and the Monarch are two peas in a pod. In fact, I have come very close to buying a 4200. If I do not purchase a Monarch, I will almost certainly get a 4200.

I was not aware that the 4200 was about to be discontinued. Thanks for that good, but disappointing, piece of information. I hope that the change is an upgrade. I am sure that the price will go up, because the 4200 has established itself as an equal among scopes that cost significantly more money.

As I currently see it, the 3-9X Monarch and 4200 are fairly equal in terms of quality and price, and together are head and shoulders better than virtually anything else in their price range. If Consumer Reports rated mid-range scopes, they both would be "Best Buys".

Thanks for asking Brady for his help. The scope will be placed on a rifle that I bought for my son as a Christmas present. I have done more research on this scope purchase than on any other I have ever bought - regardless of price range or intended use. Perhaps there are others who will benefit from the information that is being gathered. Hope so!

Thanks again.

PS - Do you know when production of the 4200 will end?.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 16:48
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Originally posted by Dallas Dallas wrote:


As I currently see it, the 3-9X Monarch and 4200 are fairly equal in terms of quality and price, and together are head and shoulders better than virtually anything else in their price range. If Consumer Reports rated mid-range scopes, they both would be "Best Buys".

PS - Do you know when production of the 4200 will end?.

 

Looks like you an I are on the same channel....  

 

Only the 3-9x 4200 is rumored to be discontinued, if I'm not terribly mistaken, not the entire 4200 line.

No, I don't know when production will stop.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2007 at 08:55
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I went to the Bushnell site this morning in order to again look at Elite 4200 3-9X40 specs.  This scope has disappeared from the site. There is now a gap between the 2.5-10X50 and the 4-16X40.  It looks like your information about the discontinuation of the 3-9X40 is correct, and something more than just a rumor. I think we now need to classify it as a fait accompli.

Both of the scopes I've been looking at are disappearing!   First, the Monarch 3-9X40 UCC disappeared from the Nikon site. The Team Primos version of the Monarch isn't there, either.  Now, the 3-9X40 Elite 4200 is gone, as well.  Bang Head

If need be, I suppose that I can go to the closet, and dust off my spare scope - a 1978 vintage VariX II - and put it on my son's gun. But, how could I do that to him?  Would people point and laugh?  What's to become of us? eek

Someone please help with some info while there are still some 3-9X40 Monarchs, Team Primos, and 4200s available.  Would you want your child to go through life with an old VariX II? 
                                                                                                            Protest_emoticon




Edited by Dallas
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2007 at 09:51
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http://www.swfa.com/pc-7280-185-bushnell-3-9x40-elite-4200-r ifle-scope.aspx as CT already posted

Sorry, I can't find the Monarch anymore. Call SWFA and they might help.

 

Good Luck



Edited by tahqua
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2007 at 16:41
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Originally posted by Dallas Dallas wrote:


If need be, I suppose that I can go to the closet, and dust off my spare scope - a 1978 vintage VariX II - and put it on my son's gun. But, how could I do that to him?  Would people point and laugh?  What's to become of us? eek

 

 

Sir...Be advised!!...Step away from the VariXII!!...Proffesional counselors have been called in and are standing by!!...Everything's OK!!!..PLEASE..DONT DO ANYTHING RASH!!!!!!

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2007 at 17:01
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Don't remember the 3x9x40 ever being on the Bushnell site, was it? I checked about a year ago and a couple of months ago , and neither time did I see it.  However, as one who suffered through the woes of Nikon customer service with my own 3x9x40 Monarch--get the Bushnell. I have several and they "rock"...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2007 at 16:22
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Cheaptrick:

 

Thanks for the help. The paramedics arrived and got me to the hospital. With time, rest, and a little more Prozac, I should recover completely.  I just want everyone to know that I really love my son, and I would never actually follow through with the idea I revealed in my last post. Besides, my son has now removed the VariX II from my home. It's really for the best. Perhaps I can be trusted with it after I fully recover. From no on, I'll try to remember to take my medication.

 

Martin 3175:

 

I'm not certain that I ever saw the 3-9X40 Bushnell 4200 on the Bushnell site. I may have concluded that It had been there simply because so many have been sold.

 

Thanks for the tip about the Nikon customer service, or lack thereof.  I've heard the problem aired before.  The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to get the Bushnell. Nothing takes the fun out of a toy like bad customer service.

 

************************************************************ ******

My son and I want to thank everyone for their concern, especially Cheaptrick. My new therapist tells me that my recovery would go smoother and take less time if an authorative source could answer the questions originally posed.  Even though I'm more likely to purchase the Bushnell, the inforation would help me overcome my OCB, and thus lessen the likelihood that I would relapse and try to inflict a VariXII on an innocent person.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2007 at 16:19
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Dallas:

competitor still have NIB 3-9x40 Monarchs for $200. I have been using Nikons since the mid 90's and never had to use their costumer service.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2007 at 09:05
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OK just got CT's pm. We were out of the office since last Wednesday.

 

Dallas you are on the right track and have figured everything out. Yes the Team Primos line is the discontinued UCC Monarch.

 

Here are the specs on the Nikon 3-9x40 Monarch UCC (#6525) from last year.

 

Weight 12.6  oz
Length 12.3"
Exit Pupil (mm): 13.3-4.4
Eye Relief (in): 3.6-3.5
FOV @ 100yds (ft): 33.8-11.3
Tube Diameter: 1 in.
Adjustment Graduation: 1/4 MOA
Max Internal Adjustment: 55 MOA
Parallax Setting (yds): 100

 

Here are the specs on the Nikon Team Primos 3-9x40 (#8435).

 

Weight (oz):  13
Length (in):  12.3
Exit Pupil (mm):  13.3 - 4.4
Field of View @ 100yds (ft):  33.8 - 11.3
Eye Relief (in):  3.6 - 3.5

Adjustment Graduation: 1/4 MOA

Max Internal Adjustment: 55 MOA

Parallax Setting (yds): 100

 

 

The weight is different I guess the primos logos weigh more.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2007 at 22:21
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Thanks for the help, Brady. This means that the only difference is the reticle design, ie., Nikoplex vs. BDC. I really do appreciate the info you provided. Thanks again.

Also, thanks to CheapTric
k. Without his help, my questions about the Nikon scopes would not have been answered, and I might have inflicted my innocent son with a 1978 VariX II.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2008 at 08:32
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I did not see a response from SWFA staff to this question. Can SWFA clarify the quality of this product? 
Thank you,
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2008 at 08:38
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This (Brady) is a SWFA employee, and here is the information in case you missed it.  
Originally posted by Brady Brady wrote:

OK just got CT's pm. We were out of the office since last Wednesday.

 

Dallas you are on the right track and have figured everything out. Yes the Team Primos line is the discontinued UCC Monarch.

 

Here are the specs on the Nikon 3-9x40 Monarch UCC (#6525) from last year.

 

Weight 12.6  oz
Length 12.3"
Exit Pupil (mm): 13.3-4.4
Eye Relief (in): 3.6-3.5
FOV @ 100yds (ft): 33.8-11.3
Tube Diameter: 1 in.
Adjustment Graduation: 1/4 MOA
Max Internal Adjustment: 55 MOA
Parallax Setting (yds): 100

 

Here are the specs on the Nikon Team Primos 3-9x40 (#8435).

 

Weight (oz):  13
Length (in):  12.3
Exit Pupil (mm):  13.3 - 4.4
Field of View @ 100yds (ft):  33.8 - 11.3
Eye Relief (in):  3.6 - 3.5

Adjustment Graduation: 1/4 MOA

Max Internal Adjustment: 55 MOA

Parallax Setting (yds): 100

 

 

The weight is different I guess the primos logos weigh more.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2008 at 08:42
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Got it; missed that he was SWFA staff. I was looking for a response from Chris.
 
I appreciate the help.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2008 at 08:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2008 at 15:14
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Based on the input above and a few people I hunt with that praise their older Monarchs; I just purchased a Nikon Team Primos from the Sample List.
 
I have a 4200 (also because of input from this site) and many Leupolds (thanks Dad). I am excited to see how they all compare.
 
Great site and thank you SWFA for the great price.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2008 at 18:51
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Originally posted by jjake jjake wrote:

Based on the input above and a few people I hunt with that praise their older Monarchs; I just purchased a Nikon Team Primos from the Sample List.
 
I have a 4200 (also because of input from this site) and many Leupolds (thanks Dad). I am excited to see how they all compare.
 
Great site and thank you SWFA for the great price.   
 

Thank you for the order. Those sample list prices are pretty hard to beat. Especially considering you’re getting a Monarch.

 
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