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Is it a waste?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2010 at 22:36
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To put a high end scope such as Leica, Z6, Z5 kahles or victory on a custom rem 700 in .270. It will be used to hunt deer in high country of New Zealand with ranges out to 400yds and sometimes low light, on foot?
I know a conquest or VX3 could do the same job for half the money but the top scopes must sell for a reason? I haven't looked thru any but the Kahles yet.
Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2010 at 23:13
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Can't help you, I refuse to look through those scopes, don't want to know what I'm missing out on.  Everyone has their own limits to what they want to spend on optics for different situations.  When you get into high end optics like that it may come down to reticle preference or something like that idk.  Some one will chime in, sounds like the kind of problem I wish I had.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 00:04
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All the scopes mentioned are wonderful optically, but, if you can't see the reticle they will be as worthless as a scope costing 500 bucks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 06:08
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is it waste? no
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 07:08
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Buy the best you can afford. Period.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 07:11
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What SVT said. If you can afford to, do it. Good optics tend to "spoil" a person.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 07:19
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If you're the type of person who appreciates really good quality equipment then I don't think it's a waste.  You certainly don't need to spend that kind of money to get a good scope.  Any decent midrange scope will do 90% of what you need.  Whether squeezing the last little bit of performance out of a scope is worth the steep price increase is worth it or not is a personal decision only you can answer.  I enjoy owning a few premium optics, but I couldn't justify having them on all my guns.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 07:26
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I'm with RifleDude. If you don't need top drawer optics, don't spend the money.
Based on your description, low light and 400 yards, I consider the money well spent. I have done the same on a few of my go to guns. The 4A reticle is also worthwhile for low light and long range. Kahles will get you into the alpha class at about the lowest cost, too.
 
Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 07:31
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Each one has different qualities, that set them apart from the normal herd. The Z6 has an unequaled zoom and low light on the 2x end for heavy timber and can still make an easy shot out to 500 yds if needed. On the down side its a big scope in size but so-so on wt. The higher end Zeiss are also big, but their AO are the best I've used in any brand. Still I have to vote yes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 09:20
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

I'm with RifleDude. If you don't need top drawer optics, don't spend the money.
Based on your description, low light and 400 yards, I consider the money well spent. I have done the same on a few of my go to guns. The 4A reticle is also worthwhile for low light and long range. Kahles will get you into the alpha class at about the lowest cost, too.
 
Doug
Double tag. The problem is, if you get the higher end optic You will keep going back to it. When you first look thru the better glass, you will notice a difference. In the store it will not be much. You will not realize the difference until after spending time in the field. Then, when going back to the other optics you have. That is when the reality sets in of the increase in quality. That is when you start to feel an emptiness when you look thru anything less.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 09:35
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Is it a waste: no; is it needed: probably not in most situation.

Don't be fooled into thinking the $2,000 scope is about the same as the $500 scope.  Both function, probably very well, but the difference is standard TV vs. hi def 1080p at 240Hz: you can watch a football game on both, you can see the expressions on the attendees' faces with the latter.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 10:10
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Haste maybe, a waste not at all.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 10:11
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Dale Clifford touched on what I wanted to say. If your custom rifle is designed as a lightweight mountain rifle that you carry in your hands as you hunt, a large European scope will affect the feel and handling qualities of the rifle more than a lighter American style scope. My friends who hunt in the mountains seem to prefer a very lightweight scope mounted as low as possible. If you carry your rifle predominately in a sniper pack on your back and bring it out only to set up for a shot, this may not matter to you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 10:24
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No one has ever said that a scope has been too clear, too bright or too precise.  Like stated by others, the Leupold and Conquest will work but, if it is the end of shooting time and you have walked a long ways and it is 400 yards to target, which scope do you want?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 10:24
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Being able to study detail in target or surrounds may or may not be a good thing, if your shooting against the clock detail becomes less important, than certain other things particularly how the scope works with overall package. While the z6 is no doubt a better optic on the surface, it would take years to shoot the game an old leo 6x has taken, and by the time the z6 "proved" itself, I'm sure something new would be out. Not to say that one should buy an older scope, but the prespective should be clear. Modern hunting rifles were sporterized from military rifles to get rid of the clunkiness, why go back to it in scopes? (and ironically tactical rifles are usually beefed up hunting rifles)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 10:58
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Top SecretTHERE IS ABOSOLUTELY NO WAY THERE IS EVER A SCOPE THAT IS TOO GOODTop Secret
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 11:07
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Nuff said, get a Z6, Diavari, similar scope... you will never be unhappy with it...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 11:10
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I tend to think there are other important factors besides the glass when you start talking extended distances you need some method to compensate for trajectory.  I tend to prefer scopes with tactical / target type knobs to dial in correction but I also have a scope with a balistic reticle Nikon Omega for 50 cal musket and while the glass is horid the scope is quite deadly because of the reticle.  I think a good compromise of good glass and useful reticle is found in the Trijicon Accupoint series scopes with their tritium illuminated reticle.  I also think that when you throw in truely adverse conditions sometimes a simple fixed 6x42 scope may be a better choice and I really like the Leupold FX3 6x42 with Long Range Duplex which gives you known hold over points for the kind of distances you are talking about so I would look real strongly at those as well as the high end Swarovski Z6 and Kahles.  Personally I prefered the weight of the lines in the reticle on the Kahles over the Z6 but that's just me.  In any case you may be better off with a balistic reticle or adjustable knobs at long range than the best glass.  I suspect there are a few who have missed their shot at long range with the best glass only to have a lovely view of the deer running away because they were unable to correctly range find the distance and correct for trajectory.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 11:53
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Another way to look at it is if you buy a $2,400.00 scope, then can't afford to hunt with it it is not worth it. If you go hunting and just at dusk you see your intended big game but can't determine if it is a buck or doe. Then the scope may or may not worth it. If the hunt is a guided hunt that cost $3,000-$10,000 and the scope means getting a shot or not. Or worst yet wounding an animal that is not recovered, Or maybe not the game you have a tag for. Then it is worth as much as the price of the trip, or fines and maybe the loss license to ever hunt again.

Edited by 3_tens - June/16/2010 at 11:55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2010 at 14:21
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Optics GrassHopper
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Great feedback, thankyou all very much. So now just need to decide which one I want, most likely out of the Z6/5 and the Kahles. Will likely go with 4a reticle.
Is the glass the same in the Z5 as the Z6? If so, the only thing I would be giving up is one extra power of zoom? Would also mean a 1" tube so a little more user friendly in the handling dept.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2010 at 11:59
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Most of us only think of optical quality as the difference between the top European scopes and the mid priced brands.  That is not exactly correct, the way scopes are constructed and the material and engineering that goes into them to make a difference.  While anything made by humans can fail, the chance of your hunt being effected by a mechanical failure is less when you purchase the top tier products.  That "Life Time Warranty" doesn’t mean much when you are hunting and your optic becomes a canteen instead of a optical product.  I carry two scopes, sighted in, with detachable mounts because "stuff" happens on hunts.  Call me crazy.... NV Hunter   

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2010 at 12:14
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Originally posted by huntfish huntfish wrote:

Great feedback, thankyou all very much. So now just need to decide which one I want, most likely out of the Z6/5 and the Kahles. Will likely go with 4a reticle.
Is the glass the same in the Z5 as the Z6? If so, the only thing I would be giving up is one extra power of zoom? Would also mean a 1" tube so a little more user friendly in the handling dept.
Z6 2.5-15 and above is higher quality glass (HD same as Zeiss FL) than Z5... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 01:17
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huntfish, you get what you pay for with optics.  I can recall countless times when guys have went with cheap optics where i work and came back unsatisfied and ended up buying a more quality scope in the end. If you can afford a Schmidt and Bender, Leica, Swarovski, Zeiss, etc i highly highly recommend that you do. You wont be disappointed.  If you are looking for a scope that is a great bang for the buck, look at the S&B summit 2.5-10x40.  Many say it is the best ten power one inch tube scope on the marker right now.  it retails around $1500, much cheaper then the S&B 30mm tube scopes and its competitors, and from what i have seen, they perform just as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 08:41
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throwing cash at the durability problem doesn't necessarily solve it. I'm willing to bet there has been more game taken with mid to lower price scopes than the high dollar stuff.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 10:39
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They are worth it, but you can find deals on the sample list and on some of the auction sites if you're patient.  I've never paid more than 2/3 cost on average for all of my Euro optics by waiting for what I could find and afford.  But that's me...
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