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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 15:45
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I dont have alot of rifle expirience, and I was hoping some of the veterans on here could tell me what safe yardage is to shoot at with iron sights consistently?  The caliber would be 30-06.  At what distance does a scope become a neccesity? thanks in advance.

Cid
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 15:49
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That's a tough questions because there are so many variables:
- shooters eyes and experience with the firearm
- game being shot at (looks like large game if a 30.06)
- type of iron sights: peep, ramp & blade, buckhorn etc
- field conditions
etc, etc
- shot for many years with peep sights only in brush conditions - longest shot would have been 150 yds.  Now I need a scope because of old eyes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 15:55
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During my time in the Corps, we qualified with a .223 at 500 yards.

If your question is, "what can be done", the answer is very different than if it is, "what should be done?"
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 18:06
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Varies with the person and the sights.  The wider the front sight the sooner it covers the target area.  Serious match rifles use a double apeture system, with an apeture for both the front and rear sight.  They are used in everything from 500 feet to 1000 yard matches.
 
The common system I see the most of is good for 100 to 200 yards with "combat" style hold.  If you use a 6 O'clock hold then you can go father.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 18:21
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With the standard Williams V-notch rear and blade front sight 100 yard shots at whitetail are reasonable. My first buck ever was shot with a Browning BAR and irons. If that is the type of sites you have, try practicing at 200 yards.
Peep sites are a totally different ball game. Once again practice at different ranges. There is a big difference between hunting large game, paper punching and average military requirements in terms of accuracy, though. I personally care if I wound an animal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 18:36
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ok, all good input.
 
I am looking into a 700 BDL wich has iron sights wich I like the idea of for hunting in dense wooded areas, but I wanted the option of putting a scope on it.  I have been told it can be a problem to mount a scope on a rifle with iron sights because of clearence issues.  I know there will be times I dont want the scope though...any thoughts
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 19:41
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Originally posted by cidme cidme wrote:

I dont have alot of rifle expirience, and I was hoping some of the veterans on here could tell me what safe yardage is to shoot at with iron sights consistently?  The caliber would be 30-06.  At what distance does a scope become a neccesity? thanks in advance.

Cid
................IMO, for more precise shooting on deer sized game and or targets, anything over 75 yards should have a scope. 100 yards at the outside!.....Don`t try and save money buy not purchasing a scope, thinking that all of your shots will be within 75 to 100 yards. They won`t be! Trust%20Me
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 19:53
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I am not trying to get out of buying a scope at all.  I just wanted to know if its possible to get the best of both worlds?  I am looking at the Bushnell 4200 but wasnt sure if it would interfere with the iron sights already on the gun. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 19:58
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 Under good lighting conditions, remarkable accuracy can be achieved with iron sights., especially target-type aperature sights, as previously mentioned.

 In the woods, you can only shoot as well as you can see.  And a good scope helps you SEE much better than you can with the naked eye.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 20:02
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 It should'nt interfere if the mounts are high enough .... if you want to use both ... you will have to get a set of see-thru/see through scope rings . They work well .... I have used them many times over the years . Sometimes moving/running game will not be trackable with a scope . Then on the other hand to really get that good kill or make sure of antlers plus get multi use at any distant range ... you'll need a scope . I'd say you'll want see thru rings ... then you get the best of both worlds . Now if you want advice on which ones and how and the best way to mount .... that's another ball game .  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 20:08
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Any of these scopes is a wonderful help when hunting in heavy brush at close range and will significantly increase your ability to hit accurately at distance.  Warne rings and bases will work nicely for what you are doing.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 20:12
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Hmmm...Thinking What about the Brockman bases that has a peep back up?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 20:13
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Originally posted by cidme cidme wrote:

I am not trying to get out of buying a scope at all.  I just wanted to know if its possible to get the best of both worlds?  I am looking at the Bushnell 4200 but wasnt sure if it would interfere with the iron sights already on the gun. 
..................................Just checking on ya there!!!......Depending on the scopes length and where it is mounted to satisfy your eye relief requirements, the scopes objective may interfere with your rear iron sites! The 3x9 4200 has a 48mm OD for its objective diameter! You may need higher scope rings!..........However, if your hunting terrain is less than 200-300 yards, then a smaller objective/lower powered variable would also do very well....... For example a Leupy VX3 2.5-8x36; a 2-7x36 or 32 (I forget) Monarch; a 2x7 or 3x9 Leupy Ultralite would also work fine! Your scope doesn`t have to be a 3x9 variable with a 48mm OD objective!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2008 at 20:17
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Hmmm...Thinking  What about the Brockman bases with the back up peep sight?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2008 at 08:04
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I know a few people that have BDL's in .06 with the irons. One has a fixed 4x the other a 3-9x40. Neither one of them had problems mounting scopes. If you put a really large scope on the rear iron sight might become a problem.
The Brockman's look to be a nice sight but the irons on the BDL are fine for back up. I would use the scope for a primary and either use a see through as mentioned. Or, get a good detachable mount like Talley or Warne. I think the see through are too high, though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2008 at 08:40
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Depending on the situation, having the peeps is great idea, especially when you are deep in the woods, or swamp bottoms and light is minimal early or late, in that instance you just can't beat iron sights. Provided that is that you have some sort of aid in seeing them, IE tritium or tru glo Optic Fibre. I have used iron sights with no problem out to 500 plus yards, that is more a matter of how you have set up your rifle (Zero) and the caliber that you are using, there's no reason why with a 30-06 that you can't be successful in most big game situations out to 300 yards with a 200 yard zero. This is of course dependent upon the grain and velocity of the round you are using as well. Then of course with the available optical quality that is available today, and the various price ranges at which they can be bought, the right reticle, and some familiarity with it, and why would you need to use iron sights? It's mostly a matter of what you are the most comfortable with.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2008 at 08:47
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If my eyesight was still good would probably still be using my peep sights.
 
Having said that, I am now using a 1.75-4x32 Bushnell and I love it.  Find it fast to pick up moving targets with the large FOV and the optics work great in heavy bush/low light.
 
Not sure if I'd try to have both irons & optical at the same time - mounts that allow this look too high to me, but again I have never used this combination.  To me, pick one or the other as your primary.  If a worst case scenario happens to your scope you can always remove it and revert back to your irons (could be a challenge in the field unless you have tools though!).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2008 at 10:16
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 I like having iron sight capabilities .... when target is on the move in brush or moving at any speed .... hard as the devil to track with a scope ... don't have time to reach out and change zoom . As far as looking too high ... looks don't matter as they say ... to me . Have you seen some of these tactical mounts on here ... high looking is'nt the word . I now always use a base and can change my rings with ease if wanted ... I've had targets take off like a bat out of h*ll and needed them . It's up to the individual .... depends also alot on where and what you want to hit  .  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2008 at 11:22
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What I mean by too high is my cheek is up off the stock when using mounts of this type.
I agree that you need to try them to decide if they are right for you. They are much faster than detachable rings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2008 at 14:31
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Merc, in the bush my scope stays on 1.75 all the time.  Was worried too that I might not pick up moving game quickly but is working ok - always shot with both eyes open & still doing it with scope.  Would be interesting to find out how many times recently a scope has let somebody down & he had to revert to irons in the field.  Would bet it's not many, and then probably because he fell & damaged it or something similar.  I walk through some pretty thick stuff and have never had a problem or lost zero.
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Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

Merc, in the bush my scope stays on 1.75 all the time.  Was worried too that I might not pick up moving game quickly but is working ok - always shot with both eyes open & still doing it with scope.  Would be interesting to find out how many times recently a scope has let somebody down & he had to revert to irons in the field.  Would bet it's not many, and then probably because he fell & damaged it or something similar.  I walk through some pretty thick stuff and have never had a problem or lost zero.
................................Dogger makes a very good point here!!! For closer and thicker terrain, assuming that will be most your hunting conditions, a quicker acquisition (both eyes open aiming set on the lower power) scope, is the best possible way to go!.......Examples are the Weaver Classic V3 1-3x20 @ 8.5 oz. Set on 3x, it would still provide enough magnification for deer sized game out to about 300-350 yards.......Others are the Aimpoint, the lower powered Trijicon, and the lower powered Elite previously mentioned. How about the lower powered variable Sightron Big Sky??......... These scopes can offer just as much speed in target acquisition as using iron sights because you`re able to use both eyes open aiming, which in turn sends a quicker target signal to the brain. Your FOV is just not restricted to what is seen through the scope itself. It is what the other eye sees too, hence the faster to the brain signal! You don`t have that type of quickness with a conventional 3x9 set on 3x or a 3x10 or a 4.5 x14 etc. as you must squint or close your non-aiming eye which is much slower to a target, moving or otherwise!............The 1.5-5x20 VX3 Leupy is another great example of fast to target acquisition. That particular scope which I already have, is going on my new Howa M1500 375 Ruger after it arrives later this year. I will use the Warne quick de-tachable rings for that one...........Because your BDL has front sites near the muzzle, like my Howa, you can expect to see that front iron site through the scope set on the lowest power. However, it will be in the lower section of your site picture and should not affect or obstruct your targeting of game, objects or paper targets!............In buying the right scope, compromises are always made. Give up something here, while gaining something over there. If the majority of your hunting is confined to shots less than 300 to 350 yards, in brushy terrain or otherwise, IMO, I`d strongly consider a very quick low powered staight tubed variable for your BDL. They are lighter, faster aiming, offer better FOV`s and they lower your rifle`s profile, all of which conventional scopes cannot do. Also, you won`t need to worry about any scope objective clearing the rear iron sites on your barrel. And if a longer shot like 400 to 500 yards comes into play, 4x to 5x on the high end is adequate. IMO, with these scopes, you really aren`t compromising too much of anything!!! 
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Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

..............had to revert to irons in the field. 


I have taken scopes off to go into the thick stuff after bear that were shot. My irons with both eyes open are faster than any low powered scope I have, including red dots with no magnification. All my bear rifles have QD's for that reason.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2008 at 17:06
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cidme:  Mounting a scope on a Remington BDL is NOT a problem with iron sights. Whoever told you that is a moron.....Don't EVER go to that gun store ever again!!!
 
Iron sights are okay for hunting for several hundred yards but THE PRECISION that you're going to be shooting is not going to be there---because the front sight is going to look like a BOWLING BALL as the target gets farther away!!  It's Okay for deer, but for a woodchuck(!!) ---well, you're not going to SEE HIM anymore!!! Whacko
 
Some people ( me included ) LIKE iron sights on some rifles---like Winchester 94s, Marlin 336s, and Savage 99s.....BUT, you will SEE better with a scope!!  AVOID  ( RUN!!!) from those hideous SEE-THRU abominations!!!  Your head will be up in the SKY somewhere attempting to look through your scope!!!   What a bunch of NONSENSE!!!! 
 
Get a variable power scope with a low setting ( 2-3X) for the low range and 7X or 9X on top and don't worry about it!!!  Practice shooting with your scope with both eyes open. 
 
Bandito    gracias, you damn gringo!!           HA! 
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

..............had to revert to irons in the field. 


I have taken scopes off to go into the thick stuff after bear that were shot. My irons with both eyes open are faster than any low powered scope I have, including red dots with no magnification. All my bear rifles have QD's for that reason.

.........Which is why you need QD`s to quickly adapt for whatever the terrain you`re in...............But my esteemed posting collegue Ed is right on here! Get a lower powered variable and practice, practice, practice with both eyes open....From my standpoint, I have used both, iron sites and quick scopes. With practice and even from others who say the same, with the right scope, you can develop into the same quickness as with the iron sights. I`ve done so........With my Nikon scout set on 2.5x and my Leupold 1.5-5x20 VX3 set on the 1.5x that I`ve also mounted up and practiced with, I will challenge any iron site for speed and accuracy. Of course my rifle`s shorter LOP and OAL will certainly have a speed advantage compared to the full sized rifles. But regardless of the rifle, it does take some practice time.........Going into real thick brush for the bears though, QD`s with just iron sites is great too, as you should have that option and versatility!................   
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