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IOR turret issue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 04:46
fletchdp View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Joined: September/26/2009
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Hey gang,

Another new member here though I browse the forum from time to time. This is the biggest and most experienced IOR community I've found. The reason I'm posting this as a new topic is that I've seen a few comments here about IOR "screwing up the numbering" on the turrets? I would like to explore that topic in a little more detail. I have a related problem and was looking for some feedback so, thanks ahead.

A little background...I own the IOR 4-14x50 illuminated with the MP-8 recticle and the large turret knobs. I bought it in September last year (2008). It's mounted on a Remington R5 .308. At the range I shoot 200, 300 and 600 yards but  I occasionally hunt with this rifle also. This discussion is based on my hunting load, 165 gr Sierra Game King that chronys about 2600 FPS. I'm sighted in dead on at 100 yards.

The elevation turret is labeled in MOA, supposedly 1 click = 1/4 MOA but the clicks are obviously 1/10 MIL instead.  I don't want to get bogged down with too much math but a little bit is necessary, here's one example. Remember the turrets are numbered/labeled in MOA, 4 clicks gets me to the number 1, 4 more to the number 2, etc. Now let's say I'm fixing to shoot 600 yards, the ballistic tables say I need to come up 17.5 or 18 MOA, about 72 clicks? I know that's only a starting point but should be pretty close. It turns out from experience that it takes 54 clicks (5.4 mils) to get me zeroed at that 600 yard range. This is not a one time thing, it will repeat over and over again... From that, I can only conclude that the "cams" in my scope are actually 1 click = 1/10 MIL instead of 1 click = 1/4 MOA as listed. The same holds true at 200 and 300 yards respectively. Once I figured this out I am now able to properly predict my point of impact, I just have to dis-regard the numbering on the turret and count the clicks.

I've have been shooting this thing long enough to feel very confident in this conclusion.  This is not really a huge deal for me once I figured out what I had. I can continue to compensate for it but properly calibrated turrets would be a better solution. To be honest, I figured I would not be the first to report this but as it turns out. In the mean time I have been researching this on the web which landed me here.

Have any of you had a similar experience with this model scope?
Also, is this the problem I've seen described here as the "numbering" issue?



Edited by Chris Farris - September/26/2009 at 11:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 11:50
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
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Your problem is one I have not seen before.

In looking at IOR's website, they do list that scope, with MP-8 reticle, as having 1/4MOA adjustments, and the scope pictured obviously has MOA numbering.  If your scope has .1mil mechanicals, I'd call or email IOR and request a new turret cap (they can do this) either with mil numbering or no numbering at all.

There was a problem about 3 years ago with the first-gen Sniper's Hide edition 3-18 FFPs that were marked as .2mil click values by the numbering, but the values were actually .1mil (so, on the drum, it was 5 clicks then "1", 5 more clicks then "2", and so on.)
I spear-headed an effort to get drums with no markings (for Kenton to print) and to get drums with proper markings.  I worked with Val for 6 months and never got anything.  Eventually a guy expressed interest in my scope (knowing about the turrets and the faulty internal metals that caused the scopes to die spontaneously) and wanted to swap it for a USO SN3 (with dust on the reticle that he didn't know he could send in to get fixed.)  I walked away from IOR at that point, and handed the turret issue off to the guy who sold the SH scopes.  Eventually, IOR sent out replacement turrets, I think it was about 9 months after I started wotking on it.  And eventually the scope I sold failed, during a match; there was full disclosure on my part!

My primary beef with IOR - and the reason I do not buy their tactical scopes any more - ever - is that they knew a defective metal was used in an internal mechanism and that the metal could fail, causing the scope to fail completely.  With some of these going onto duty rifles that see hard use and accompany shooters into harms way, I was appalled that their solution to the problem was to wait till the scope failed, then replace them.

Good luck with your scope.  I do very much like IOR's glass, but now, for me, it is a point of principle.  Val should send you a new turret cap, then you'll be good to go.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 17:26
Jon A View Drop Down
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My 4-14X50 IOR had clicks that were indeed exactly 1/4 MOA but that was a while ago, with the old turret design. 

My 2.5-10 IOR had turrets labeled 1/2 MOA but they were in fact 1/8th Mil so I know this can happen with IORs.  I used a BDC label taped to the turret with that scope much of the time so it didn't bother me too much.  When I didn't, I simply printed the drop chart in "1/4 Mil" increments so it worked fine.  It was actually nice the turrets matched the reticle, but it was a little annoying in that I much prefer 1/10 Mil clicks.

In any case, I see this as a bad news/good news situation for you.  Good news is .1 Mil clicks!  I'd like that much better for that scope.  Slap on a new knob and be happy!  Bad news of course is the hassle of getting the new knob and the fact it was wrong in the first place.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 18:09
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I'd certainly want IOR to send me some correctly marked turrets but I prefer 1/10 mil.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 21:17
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Optics GrassHopper
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Joined: September/26/2009
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Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:


In any case, I see this as a bad news/good news situation for you.  Good news is .1 Mil clicks!  I'd like that much better for that scope.  Slap on a new knob and be happy!  Bad news of course is the hassle of getting the new knob and the fact it was wrong in the first place.


I agree the mil/mil situation is really a plus. I'm going to call VAL this week and see if they can ship the correct knobs..
I'm really surprised mine is the only one to surface with this issue.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 21:20
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Optics GrassHopper
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I'd certainly want IOR to send me some correctly marked turrets but I prefer 1/10 mil.


Wink
Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 22:01
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I just zeroed my 4x14x50 IOR, with the large knobs and MP8 reticle.  Everything appears correct as is 1/4 MOA... I bore sighted with my Leupold magnetic bore sighter and fired 5 inches low and 1 inch right.  I made my corrections and hit dead center.  The next 5 shots all touch each other... no problems, YET.   I wish I had your problem cause I would love to have the mil/mil scope...  Bandito
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2009 at 02:21
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Optics GrassHopper
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Joined: September/26/2009
Location: SE Texas
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I'm now hearing one of the main beefs with IOR is inconsistency from one scope to the next, WOW. It's hard to imagine a high-end product like this could get out the door with miss matched parts. I'm trying to picture what that production line might look like....
See, I told you it would fit...Cheers
I will keep you guys posted.Laugh
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2009 at 09:28
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
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Fletchdp,  don't get worked up!  From time to time, IOR makes a gem of a scope, yours might very well be a fantastic scope, and ask pointed out, mil/mil is much better and your problem is fairly easy to solve - even if it's just a piece of paper taped to the drum with the correct numbering and spacing.

There are several members of the OT that own/love IOR scopes (I have their 4x hunter on a 45/70 and it is one of my favorite scopes), so don't worry about this.  Once the turret issue is resolved (and my guess is that Val will get you squared away), enjoy the scope.

They are inconsistent; however, that inconsistency is working in your favor this time around.

The scope should be a keeper, and - assuming no other problems, it'd be a nice scope to have.
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