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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2007 at 20:09
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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A request for info on IOR's 4x old style scopes got me to thinking - just how good of a buy are these and if they were even usable against some of the modern stuff, on an ar or period weapon. sooooo for $400
 the scope looks longer than it actually is -- about the same as a 1.5x6 leo and about the same over all size, has the cqb reticle and BDC  built in for 308. Windage actually as a stop in it. Clicks are very positive and the scope looks like several odd sizes of PVC lawn sprinkler hooked together. It is definitely 12 out of a 10 on the funky scope scale. The reticle is non centering which in a way is good, as you can see it making changes while you do it. the illumination is very crisp and clear on low, but it is difficult past the middle values as the red haze washes the target picture. , but in bright light (against snow) it's not apparent.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 11:58
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I do not like the non-centering reticle a whole lot, but otherwise I really like these little scopes.  They are good optically and very tough (simple construction and all).  Eye relief is pretty short though, but very nice on a 223.  The flip side of the coin is that the field of view is very good. 

The bad part is that with the recent price increases, they moved up in price quite a bit.  I bought my first one of these at well under $300 a few years ago.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 12:24
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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weight at 10 oz. puts the scope into the lighter group --  and while the 3x  CQB is smaller and lighter its also twice the cost...  I really, really like this reticle. INside dia. of horseshoe is  head sized at 100 m, with 1 mil thickness on the horseshoe corresponding with the first 2 hash marks .  number 3 with circle is same head size (10 inches) at 300 m  and center dot is 1 moa

elevation knob is cammed for 308  168 gr. HPBT at 2650 fps.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 12:28
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Ilya glad to see your post-- can you think of any other fixed 4x that are this tough, either in a pro scope or sporting scope??? 

the eye relief is stated at 3 in. but it works better without bicycle inner tube on the end, in any case -- it is more than my ACOG

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 13:05
koshkin View Drop Down
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There are not a lot of scopes that compete directly against this little IOR.  The IOR 3x25 is ultimately a better scope, IMO, but I am partial to its longer eye relief.  The downside is that the 3x25 comes with a built-in mount, which works well on Picatinny rails, but limits you to one mounting height.  Either way, the 3x25 is designed to prvide an alternative to ACOG and Elcan (despite somewhat different design philosophies).  I am considering building an AR chambered for 50 Beowulf, and the 3x25 would be a perfect fit for that: tough little bugger with lots of eye relief.

IOR's own hunting 4x32 is a surprisingly nice package, but the reticle is different and it is a little heavier (steel tube and all).  If you are OK with scopes designed for hunting needs, there are quite a few options out there, such as Leupy FX-2, Burris Short Mag, SIghtron S2, Zeiss Conquest and S&B.

There are a couple of inexpensive russian scopes that have a similar design philosophy to the IOR 4x24, but the quality is not as good (the IOR as well as the russian 4x scopes all descend from the original russian PSO design, I think).

That's pretty much all I can think of.  There has been a lot more development in 1-4x or similar scopes than in fixed magnifications.  I think the conventional thinking is that a low range variable is a more versatile choice.  While I generally agree with that (hence a current staple of five or so variable scopes of this type), I think a compact 3x or 4x scope with good glass and good reticle has a lot gong for it.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 13:29
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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check into the 458 socom. brass and Lee dies available form competitor , far more bullets available in 458 , mainly cheap 45-70 remingtons.  both are around 454 casull or 460 S&W in a compact ar. , no modifcations to mag, (can't remember on beowulf)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 13:50
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

check into the 458 socom. brass and Lee dies available form competitor , far more bullets available in 458 , mainly cheap 45-70 remingtons.  both are around 454 casull or 460 S&W in a compact ar. , no modifcations to mag, (can't remember on beowulf)


Yeah, I've looked at both of those, as well a Leitner-Wise and Bushmaster cartridges that are similar. 

For my purposes, there isn't really any practical difference between them.  As time goes on, I have fewer and fewer opportunities to handload, so availability of factory ammo is very important.  Alexander Arms seems to produce a reasonable variety of 50 Beowulf ammo.  Besides, I have their 6.5 Grendel upper which I am very happy with.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2007 at 20:01
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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checked out the milling on the IOR today, works great but as with any 4 power past 500 yds gets tough
eye relief much better than the ACOG as well as glass quality
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2007 at 21:02
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Past 500yards with 4x is pushing it  a little, I think.  I know people do it, but it can't be straightforward.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2007 at 13:01
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how is the glass quality compared to the hunting line? i am considering the IOR 4x w/ CQB for my 223 - is it decent for lowlight varminting inside 200 yrds?
 
thanks
 
J
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2007 at 13:20
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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can't say on the hunting line, maybe Ilya, but I can say its good or better than any 4x out there in any catagory that I've tried. I wouldn't hesitate using the above rig in low light hunting anything.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2007 at 13:21
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and that includes dangerous game with a 20 rd mag FMJ or AP.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2007 at 13:56
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good to know - i think it will do fine on my 700P remington .223 -
 
thanks for the input.
 
J
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2007 at 16:04
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500 yards can be done with a 4x scope no problem.  I've taken an M16A4 and a 4x ACOG out to 800.  Looks great Dale.

It all comes down to this simple fact.  If someone has a firearm that many gear queers would balk at but he knows his dope and knows his firearm, watch out because he'll probably kick you ass or give you a good run for your money if you get into a little target shooting competition.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 14:13
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I have one of these scope on my AR.  I really like it, the glass is very clear the BDC works pretty good and it is super tough.  The one thing I did not like was how the glass was set so far in the eye piece, I found my self bonking myself in the head quite often.  So I took my dremmel and cut that extra 3/4 of an inch off and it is now 10 times better.  Probably voided all warranties but it sure works better for me.  I shot out to 750 yards on steal with mine using 55 gr FMJ ammo.  Once you get past 500 the BDC is way off.  But 500 is pretty far for a 223 anyway.  All in all I am pretty happy with it and have installed 3 more of them on buddies rifles who have been just as pleased as me.  I think it is a great buy for the money. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 19:37
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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checked the mils for ranging today against 18 in steel targets and against the readings for laser, and 2 other mil systems.  showed 650 yds-- center dot hold gave constant hits, but solid circle on the outside would cover up misses and strike marks in the dirt. So would have to give this reticle a big NO for varmit hunting. Now to the target of the day old fire extingushers, fun to hit, white powder sprays out at various yardages. .
The eye relief as super suggests workes best with the cup off and I'll take his word on the dremel work. However the recoil on 308 semi works best with the rubber cup left on.
adjustment of the elevation and windage calls for loosening the two top outside with an allen only 3/4 of a turn. this allows the continous movement of only the top knob. When poi is on at 100yds the two are then retightened. A little busy by american standards and especially with all the new stuff out.
next step to check out the bdc in depth.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 19:51
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I agree the sighting in is kind of a pain.  But once it is set it works great and keeps a good zero.  Another down side is when you change elevations you can't just move it a 1/2 MOA or what ever is needed like you can with newer scopes, you actually have to shoot it and go through the whole re-zero process and then again to change it back.  But for many people that will never be a problem.  Of course for a close to mid range defensive weapon I don't think that 1/2 MOA will make much difference.  It is definitely old school tech, especially with the moving reticle :) but I still think for $350 it is a good deal.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2008 at 10:17
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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yea there are no intermediate values in hold over, but I think it was set for minute of man. If it needs intermediate values 187 yd , I use the mill hold overs.  But its speed in use makes up for this.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2008 at 10:42
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I was meaning from like 8000 ft elevation to 1000 ft elevation.  It changes the zero and you just can't make changes with the typical 1/4 MOA adjustments and be right on again.  With this system you have to actually shoot to re-zero and then again when you go back.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2008 at 10:55
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oh you really meant elevation -- sounds like maybe your using it in 3-gun or rifle matches???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2008 at 11:49
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No matches for me, I want to but I would have to travel to far and with fuel prices as they are, I would rather buy ammo. Big%20Smile  I use it to take classes with at Front Sight in Nevada which is in the 2000 something elevation range.  Then when I come back to Utah I use it in the Mountains to hunt rockchucks and Coyotes.  So i go from 2000 all the way up to 9000+, and I have to rezero because shooting a rockchuck at 300 yards at 8000 feet when it is sighted in at 2000 makes me miss.  But that is the fun of the game.  
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