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IOR 1.5x8 vs ACOG

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2012 at 15:22
bvlad2 View Drop Down
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Ok here is the situation. I have a M-4 that I use on Police Duty. I have had a Trijicon ACOG TA01 NSN with a Jpoint dot mounted on top that has been my optic for a few years. Recently, I had a zero issue and now it is at Trijicon being evaluated. I am currently using an Eotech that I had on the M-4 prior to the ACOG. I like the magnification option of the ACOG and the CQB option of the Jpoint. I like the idea of the Elcan Specter Doctor being on the same plane but offering magnification or not at the flip of a switch. The price is not so great. My experience tells me that the applications where the M-4 is deployed either call for magnification or CQB but I have never had to use both at the same time. Example: (entry team = no magnification; perimeter team = magnification) Though I like the ACOG, it is a combat optic that seems to be a bit less perecise than other optics. The up/down different plane issues can be a pain too. I was thinking about going with something like the IOR 1.5x8 CQB instead of the ACOG/Jpoint. The advantage would seem to be CQB and magnification on the same plane as well as more magnification and variable magnification inbetween.Does anyone have any wisdom or experience  you would like to share?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2012 at 16:00
BeltFed View Drop Down
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I have both a 4x ACOG and the 1.5-8x26 IOR, and I understand your issues. If you haven't held or seen the IOR, the first thing you will notice is the size and weight. Compared to the ACOG, it is huge and heavy. With that said, I love the capabilities of the scope. On 1.5 the scope is still usable at contact distances, where the ACOG is a little harder to use. The IOR has a cat tail that makes changing power easy and resonably fast (the power ring is still stiff). I was a little worried that the CQB reticle would be to large for accurate shots on small targets at distance since it's a SFP reticle, but it is not a problem at all and I love the reticle. The illumination is also a plus, since it is adjustable, it may be a little weak in bright sunlight, but who needs it then. It has plenty of eye relief, and I'm able to mount a Knights Armament BUIS under it, but the scope has to be removed to use it. I have the IOR mounted with a ADM quick release mount. The glass is great and easily usable in low light. It is a pain to zero, and I don't care much for the BDC reticle or BDC turret, but 300yds is the maximum intended use and a 200yd zero will suffice.
I have to go now, so I will finish up later.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 08:17
bvlad2 View Drop Down
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Thanks for your review. I expected the IOR to weigh a bit more. I have an IOR 4-14 with MP8 reticle on one of my sniper rifles. The IORs are well built and a bit bulky but great scopes. I would like to try one to see how quickly it works in CQB situations. I suspect it will be more precise at longer distances than the ACOG. What makes it a pain to zero? Is it mostly designed for a 100 yard zero and then use the BDC for hold overs?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 11:37
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Well I was going to give you a link to IOR's web page, but they have changed it and I couldn't find the section that tells you how to zero the scope.
I'm doing this from memory, so please take that in mind.
To zero the scope, you loosen the screws on the turret knobs (this where my memory fails) and hold the turret cap in place (at either 100yds or 200yds depending on the distance you are zeroing it at) and turn the turret in the direction you need to move the shotgroup. The difficulty is, there are no click values or audible clicks to let you know how far your adjustment is, and you just have to guess. Then tighten the turret cap screws and shoot another group. If your off (and you probably will be), try it again until you are zeroed. Take lots of ammo.
Of course instructions come with the scope (don't lose them), but you can see why it's a PITA to zero.
The new IOR 1-10x26 has traditional turrets and adjustments, but it is a FFP reticle, and I'm not crazy about a FFP scope for CQB, and it's almost double the price. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 13:55
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Being prior LEO and Military I understand exactly where you are coming from.  The agency I worked for didn't authorize any magnified optics for anyone except CRT (SWAT).  We all ran Irons or Aimpoints in Patrol.  If they had let us have magnification I would have went with something that was 1.1 or true 1x on the bottom end.  I have a ELCAN on a M1A EBR and that thing is the GREAT ... but as you said ... hefty price.  The USO SN4 is also another great optic ... spendy.  The tactical market is exploding and this year a whole batch of 1-6x24 are being released but end user avialability timeline ... who knows.  I have a SS 1-4x24 FFP model with the circle reticle and think that would be a great optic for a duty patrol rifle and fill both roles.  The nice wide open nature of the ELCAN still puts it at the top of the pile.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 15:54
bvlad2 View Drop Down
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The IOR does seem to be set up oddly if that is the way you have to get  a zero. I agree that the Elcan does have some great advantages not found in other scopes. I have given some thought to some of the 1x4 scopes which puts you in a much better price range. I thought about the IOR 1x4 as well as the horus Vision Talon 1X4. The only reason I have not gone that route is that, if I am going to make a change, I thought I would go ahead and get more magnification. I realize I probably don't need it but it is nice to have it available if I want to use it. I researched the Horus Vision Blackbird which is a 1x8 with a 30mm tube but Horus Vision is either out of them or has discontinued them and of course they sell direct and have no dealers.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 17:41
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Everyone has their own preferences  Des Moines Metro Star Team (SWAT) went with the red crosshair 3x Trijicon compact ACOG.  I have one of each of these and love both of them.  Also I can see a need to be able to swtich optics so I run LaRue quick detachable mounts but the BOBRO is also reported to be a good mount.  I run what Im comfortable with.  I tend to think that you conclusion is correct that your are either CQB entry team at low or no magnification where I really like this 1.5 triangle because you work off the whole bright area up close and at distance work of the point for a precise shot. I find that with a 300 yd Zero it will hold sub moa working off the point. Since most police engagements are under 80 yds you might want to alter your zero accordingly.  The red crosshair is just plain and simple and everyone seems to like it but having both I prefer the triangle however I might select a red triangle as I find the amber washes out when pointed toward streetlights at night.  As you can see by the photo below a fixed power 6x42 Super Sniper is mounted on another La Rue mount at just under three hundred that is a bargain but if you can double the price the 3-9x42 Mil Quad FFP is the way to go.   These mounts return to Zero very nicely.  Honestly if I had to pick just one optic it would be the compact ACOG  under stress unless you have the time that a designated marksman does keep it simple you will never be on the wrong power.
Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope Amber Triangle Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA442
  • Amber Triangle
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
$945.95
 
Trijicon 3x24 Compact Acog Rifle Scope Red Crosshair Trijicon 3x24 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA50R4
  • Red Crosshair
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
$945.95 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 17:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 18:05
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If I were in the market for a lower than 3-9 variable I would look strongly at SWFA s new  1-6 as for IOR great glass - service afterward in Romania -- not ideal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 14:49
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I chose the IOR for 3-gun, and designated marksman (I also am a LEO). I work at an airport and we have some unique requirements of CQB and extreme distances (beyond 200yds), both in and out of the terminal. I'm not saying the IOR is perfect, but so far I'm pleased, and I'm still wringing it out before duty use.
I tried a 1-4x with a FFP reticle, but my eyes didn't get along with it, so I wanted a SFP reticle for CQB, and I just wound up with the IOR. I think it was a good choice though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 14:56
bvlad2 View Drop Down
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I wish the SS1-6 was available now. It might be just the ticket! I suspect it may be difficult to convince the powers that be to let me use a SS on duty. The seem to lean toward approving only scopes made by a brand name that they recognize. I am shocked that they know what an IOR is.To be fair, they have been pretty open as long as the quality is road worthy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 15:06
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The SS1-6 may actually be a better choice for you and your application. I have the 3-9 SS and they are well made scopes with good glass. It certainly wouldn't be the beast that the IOR is in the size weight catagory.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 15:20
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I have owned a SS 10x scope and it was a good scope. My ACOG should be coming back from Trijicon soon. I will probably have to make a decision then wheather I want to put it back on the M-4 and sight it in or sell/trade the ACOG and get a replacement to mount and sight in. It would seem like a waste to have to do a sight in when  know I may have to do it again soon. This being said, I will have to decide before the SS1-6 comes out. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 16:58
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You might be surprised --  SWFA has a LOT of Military and Police customers.
 
 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/03/2012 at 17:32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 18:09
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I am sure they do. I have always been impressed by the SS line. I just wish that the policy makers kept up with these things as well as we do. Thanks for all the input so far. I may be contacting SWFA for a new scope soon!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 19:02
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Good Luck and keep the idea of using LaRue or  BOBRO quick release mounts if you need to alternate optics or you can have a red dot to the 1 O'Clock positon and  cant the rifle to pick up the dot or you can use the crimson trace green laser ( I have one but not sure I trust the laser yet and its spendy for what it is).  The gun I usually carry has the red crosshair compact ACOG in LaRue RCO mount and the green laser, but I do trust the mounts I use to return to Zero way better than one would expect so using multiple optics is a reality. If you can get the infared laser the military uses that is the ticket because it cant be seen without nightvision goggles.    Military Model:
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 19:10
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I just ordered one of these to play with
Trijicon 1-4x24 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope Red Triangle Trijicon 1-4x24 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR24R
  • Matte
  • Red Triangle
  • 30mm
$844.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2012 at 10:52
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I agree that a good mount is a must when trying to return to zero. I had not had any problems with swapping optics until I had the ACOG issue. I also looked at the Accu-Points but I think I like the IOR better for multi-function. I have not had much experience with lasers. With multiple team members, I don't know how you know yours from someone else's unless you all use different colors.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2012 at 14:33
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Lasers can be a blessed curse or a cursed blessing because just like tracers they work both direction if there is any dust in the air it gives away your position. The up side is they are very intimidating and if you can intimidate bad guys into compliance you save a lot of paperwork. The other thing a laser will do is allow you to work away from the gun you can hold the gun where you are not picking up the sights but  looking over the top of the gun so you have better overall view and can pick up on secondary threats while knowing where its pointed.  Also useful to know if other team members are in the path of the bullet as there is a lot of difference between where the optic is on an AR an where the barrel is that several inches difference has caused more than one person to shoot and hit low walls, cars etc that raising the barrel a few inches would have missed.  I am certainly not knocking the IOR I had a fixed 6x42 and the glass was every bit as good at the Mk4 10 M3 I had and the reticle was better the IOR glass is outstanding but there have  been concerns with customer service after the sale. The eastern block does not have the same business customer service that we expect although it is developing and getting better.
So if you are still thinking a low power variable I would really rather see you consider these:or the Nightforce 2.5-10x32 but the low end number will be important so These are more money but premium scopes that will last a lifetime and U.S. Made
US Optics 1.8-10x44 SN-3 30mm Riflescope US Optics 1.8-10x44 SN-3 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - USOSN3I
  • Matte Black Type III hard Anodizing
  • Illuminated Mil-Scale GAP Reticle
  • 30mm
  • Low Profile - Rapid Focus Eyepiece
  • 11 Pos Rheostat (Red) Illumination
  • EREK 1/10 MIL Elevation Knob
  • US#3 M40 Style 1/10 MIL Windage Knob
  • ERGO Upgrade Parallax Control
$2,274.95 
US Optics 1.5-6x28 SN-4 30mm Riflescope US Optics 1.5-6x28 SN-4 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - USOSN4C
  • Matte Black Type III hard Anodizing
  • Illuminated JNG MIL Reticle
  • 30mm
  • Low Profile - Rapid Focus Eyepiece
  • 11 Pos Rheostat (Red) Illumination
  • EREK 1/10 MIL Elevation Knob
  • US#1 1/10 MIL Slimline Windage Knob
  • Fixed Parallax Control
$1,599.95 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/04/2012 at 14:51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2012 at 14:57
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I dont know if you have ever seen this reticle but it a fine choice for CQB and SWFA will take trade in scopes   http://www.samplelist.com/TradeInForm.aspx  Ive traded my way into better optics many times.
SEE PHOTO:
Trijicon 3.5x35 Acog Rifle Scope .223 Red Horseshoe Trijicon 3.5x35 Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA11H
  • .223 Red Horseshoe
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
  • Free Neoprene Scope Coat w/ Purchase
  • Free Flat Top Adapter w/ Purchase
$1,262.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2012 at 15:52
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The US Optics SN4 has been on my radar also. I had a SN3 I used for a while on a sniper rifle. I assume that the  Illuminated JNG MIL Reticle is more of a circle-like CQB at lower power and then the mil marks apply more at higher powers. I is a bit pricey but I have considered a trade for the ACOG when it returns.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2012 at 18:03
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Pull it up on U.S. Optics web site and you can see the reticle better there are actually several choices including a model that has both first focal plane and second focal plane reticles. I suspect a lot of these are special order and not in inventory like the one shown on SWFA site but I think SWFA could get you one of the custom ones but there is likely build time involved not sure how long but its a cool scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 10:27
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Looks like the price for the SN4 is close to the IOR depending on what you add to it. I do like the SN4s in stock at SWFA. I suspect that I will try to sell the ACOG when it comes back from Trijicon and then see what I can afford.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 10:36
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http://www.samplelist.com/TradeInForm.aspx
You can always use this towards the new scope if you want.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 10:44
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I may use the trade in option if I can get a value for the ACOG/Jpoint
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