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In Search Of My Ultimate Big Game Hunting Scope

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RifleDude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 12:31
That left side turret on the compact NXS models is not parallax adjustment; it is the illumination rheostat knob. 
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 14:14
Yes, sorry, I mis-stated.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 14:33
Rancid, you know one thing I think is probably less of a problem with the compact models is that there seems to be less need to adjust the reticle focus - given the lower magnification. I know you've mentioned how annoying it is that the caps twist with the eyepiece.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 16:52
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Rancid, you know one thing I think is probably less of a problem with the compact models is that there seems to be less need to adjust the reticle focus - given the lower magnification. I know you've mentioned how annoying it is that the caps twist with the eyepiece.
 
The issue Rancid refers to with the higher powered models isn't in adjusting reticle focus, it's that the whole eyepiece rotates when changing power.  The compact NXS eyepieces do not rotate with the power ring.
 
According to NF, the higher powered NXS models are that way because they made these scopes for a US Navy contract.  The Navy requested it be that way so that power changes could be easily and positively made by simply grabbing the eyepiece end of the scope and rotating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Idaho Scot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 17:35
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Scot, for me it came down to the Sightron SIII 3.5.-10x44 MD and the Nightforce Compact NXS 2.5-10x32. Ultimately, I went with the Nightforce. Having just got it and mounted it I haven't shot with it yet, but my objectives were much the same as yours. What I can say is that it looks and feels like a great scope. It's a little heavy (19 oz) but is fairly compact. The scope also comes with (unadvertised) polarized flip-ups standard. As Rifledude mentioned, the reticles are thin but the illumination takes care of that for me. While waiting for the mount, I took this scope out a couple times around dusk and glassed deer and other objects. Yes, the 32mm objective limits exit pupil but I don't plan on taking a shot over 300 yards as it's getting dark (and probably not over 200). In that case, I don't mind dialing down to 5-7X and employing some illumination. I did not get the zero stops, given the extra cost. It's not like I'm going to be engaging multiple targets in a combat environment...just looking to get out beyond MPBR when the occasion warrants it.

I plan to take this scope out Thursday to sight it in. I don't think I'll really get to put it or the rifle through their paces but will at least post a mini range report.
 
Please do give a report.  I look forward to reading it.  And thanks for the info on the scope.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Idaho Scot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 17:39
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

No, I was just curious, as I am in the fairly early stages of testing a Z6 myself.
 
I can see why Swarovski would suggest 30mm scopes on heavier kickers, as they use different erector springs in their 30mm scopes than in their 1" scopes. I am trying to run down two different stories that are apparently coming from Zeiss about which scopes are best for heavy recoil. I suspect Trijicon uses the same erector system in both the 30mm and 1" scopes.
 
John,
 
If you find out the answer to which scope is best for heavy recoil please let me know.  Information like that would be very beneficial.
 
Thanks,
 
Scot E.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 17:41

My Swaro recommendation would be this:
http://www.swfa.com/pc-12648-978-new-swarovski-17-10x42-z6-30mm-riflescope.aspx

It has great range, 42mm objective, no adjustment for parallax, and hunting turrets.  It also has their ballistic reticle - which I like allot - and is small and has good eye relief.

Is the thin section of the ballistic reticle easy to see in low light conditions?  I haven't been able to find one to check.  It looks very thin.

According to NF, the higher powered NXS models are that way because they made these scopes for a US Navy contract.  The Navy requested it be that way so that power changes could be easily and positively made by simply grabbing the eyepiece end of the scope and rotating.

I asked NF about this very thing and they told me the same thing.  They also said it was necessary to meet the requirements for water infiltration. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 17:50
It is a bit thin for low light, but the positives far outweigh that negative - in my opinion.


As ballistic reticles go, I really like this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Idaho Scot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 17:58
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

It is a bit thin for low light, but the positives far outweigh that negative - in my opinion.


As ballistic reticles go, I really like this one.
 
Are you refering to Swaro's ballistic reticle or did you mean to insert another?
 
Thanks,
 
Scot E.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 18:00
Originally posted by Idaho Scot Idaho Scot wrote:

Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

It is a bit thin for low light, but the positives far outweigh that negative - in my opinion.


As ballistic reticles go, I really like this one.
 
Are you refering to Swaro's ballistic reticle or did you mean to insert another?
 
Thanks,
 
Scot E.


The Swaro.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 20:54
Re Higher mag Nightforce NXS: I see. Yes, the that would be very annoying. Not having spent much time with those I just assumed they were like the Compact NXS models, with the separate focusing ring. Thanks for the clarification.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Idaho Scot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 08:41

Thanks to everyone for their input and time spent helping me with my search.  Excellent From the info you gave I was able to come up with a darn good short list.  There were a couple good suggestions I received but they didn’t make the list mostly due to price for the features I was getting.    

I was able to get to a couple local stores today and put my hands on most of the scopes on my list.  Not all were in the exact format I wanted but close enough to give me a good feel for what I was looking at.  I am a bit frustrated to be honest because it was pretty easy to find scopes with most of the features I wanted but not everything.  Everything seemed to have a short coming or two.   

Short list is as follows:

Zeiss Conquest- 3-9x40 or 3.5-10x44 with Z600 reticle- Out of all the reticles I looked at I was most impressed with this one.  Across the board I was surprised at how light/thin the reticle lines were in most of the other scopes I looked at.  The Nightforce npr2 was so light I lost the reticle in the store just moving the scope up and down isles of clothes.  I know the illumination would fix this but it raises the question as to whether I want to have to rely on a scope that will require illumination for all lowlight and some shadow conditions.  A Dead battery or illumination malfunction could spell disaster.  The NP-1 does look thicker but there wasn’t one to look at so I don’t know for sure how much more acceptable that reticle would be.  The negative- the turrets were a real disappointment.  There are no MOA numbers around the turret nor do the hash marks go all the way around.  Really disappointed as most other aspects were a great fit.  

Nightforce NXS 2-10x32 with NP-R2 reticle.    Before looking at the scopes in person  this one topped my list for having all of what I wanted.  Now the reticle causes me some concern.  Maybe it would be better in natural light but inside I was very concerned about how thin the reticle lines were.  Another question for anyone with Nightforce experience.  Are the turrets the same size on the compact 24 and 32mm scopes as they are on the larger 50and 56mm’s?  I was able to look at a 3.5-15x50 and the turrets are pretty big, making the footprint larger than I thought it was going to be.  Also any experience with the NP-1 reticle?  It appears darker/ thicker but is it enough so to make a difference.  If I go that route I loose the luxury of the NP-R2’s range finding ability and multiple reticle luxuries!Sad
 

Bushnell 4200- 2.5-10x40- I wasn’t able to look at this scope but it won’t have a BDC reticle and am unsure if the turrets are numbered. 

Bushnell 6500- 2.5-16x42- Nice scope, a little long but definitely doable.  No BDC reticle but nice turrets.  I have yet to have an elite scope fail on me so I have a soft side for these guys!

Sightron Big Sky 3-12x42- HHR reticle- I couldn’t find this scope locally so I am unsure of the turrets.  The HHR reticle is a BDC style but only at its very basic form. 

Leupold VXIII-3.5-10x40- pretty nice scope.  Actually surprised me.  The standard turrets had pull up resettable low profile turrets with numbered MOA lines and hashes.  The B&C reticle was a bit of a disappointment.  It was actually pretty hard to see also and smaller than I thought it would be.  Again natural light might help with this. 

 

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.  Any further thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Scot E.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 09:30
The turrets on the Nightforce compact are smaller than on the 50mm versions.

There is quite a price range on your potential choices.  If you have the money, the Nightforce would be my pick of the listed scopes.  WHy did you take the Swaro off the list? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 09:32
Also, be advised, if the Conquest does not have target turrets, Zeiss will put one on for $50.

And Kenton Industries will make a BDC turret for another $75.  I too dislike the Conquest capped turret, but the target turret upgrade is easy and the Kenton BDC is a great option.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Idaho Scot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 10:05
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Also, be advised, if the Conquest does not have target turrets, Zeiss will put one on for $50.

And Kenton Industries will make a BDC turret for another $75.  I too dislike the Conquest capped turret, but the target turret upgrade is easy and the Kenton BDC is a great option.
 
That is great news.  I didn't realize that addition was an option. Would you suggest the zeiss option or kenton?  Do you have to send the scope in or do they just send the new knobs?
 
My list does have a wide range in price but at the lower end (Elites and Sightron)I have a real comfort level as far as durability, turret repeatablity, and performance goes based on past use.  I guess I have a comfort level there and know that they will perform when needed even if they aren't the cream of the crop per say.
 
I took the swaro off mainly due to price.  I know I would love the scope and I agree that it fits my list very well. But the Nightforce was more than I thought I was going to have to spend and the Swaro is another $600+.  If money were only no object!  Ouch  To be honest I have too many irons in the fire right now as far as projects, spreading me too thin!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Idaho Scot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 10:24
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Also, be advised, if the Conquest does not have target turrets, Zeiss will put one on for $50.

And Kenton Industries will make a BDC turret for another $75.  I too dislike the Conquest capped turret, but the target turret upgrade is easy and the Kenton BDC is a great option.
 
Also, how much larger are the Zeiss and kenton turrets?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 12:06
First and foremost: a clarification:

If the scope does not have target turrets, you must send the scope back to Zeiss for adding target turrets.  Kenton cannot put target turrets on your Conquest.

Once you have target turrets, Kenton makes a BDC that replaces the standard drum (or turret top) with one having your ballistic data printed on the drum.  This is not an "either/or" option, you MUST have target turrets (which Zeiss will do for $50/turret) AND you must buy a BDC from kenton.

it is a good solution - providing you have accurte ballistic data for your round.

I had a 4.5-14 Conquest on a 300WM and the data was spot-on.

The new Conquest target turrets are probably 25% larger than the capped, hunting turrets, but well worth the slight addition in space. Attached is a pic of the Cnoquest that Zeiss put a target turret on.  I added the Kenton drum which is the same size as the standard turret Zeiss provides (just marked differently.)


Hope it helps.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 17:26
Originally posted by Idaho Scot Idaho Scot wrote:

Also any experience with the NP-1 reticle?  It appears darker/ thicker but is it enough so to make a difference.  If I go that route I loose the luxury of the NP-R2’s range finding ability and multiple reticle luxuries!Sad

 
 
The NP-1 plex reticle is indeed more visible due to the thicker outer posts, but the reticle of theirs I like best for general hunting would be the FC-2.  The posts appear bolder on the outside than NP-1, yet taper towards the center so they don't obscure too much of the target, and the circle dot in the center is pretty visible.  The thing I like about this reticle for a hunting scope is the fact that only the center circle & dot are illuminated, not the posts.  Therefore, you're less likely of having the problem of over-illumination flare overpowering your target in low light.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Idaho Scot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 18:00
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Idaho Scot Idaho Scot wrote:

Also any experience with the NP-1 reticle?  It appears darker/ thicker but is it enough so to make a difference.  If I go that route I loose the luxury of the NP-R2’s range finding ability and multiple reticle luxuries!Sad

 
 
The NP-1 plex reticle is indeed more visible due to the thicker outer posts, but the reticle of theirs I like best for general hunting would be the FC-2.  The posts appear bolder on the outside than NP-1, yet taper towards the center so they don't obscure too much of the target, and the circle dot in the center is pretty visible.  The thing I like about this reticle for a hunting scope is the fact that only the center circle & dot are illuminated, not the posts.  Therefore, you're less likely of having the problem of over-illumination flare overpowering your target in low light.
 
I do like that one.  I just wish it had additional reticles below the main dot for varying yardages. One to consider though. thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 308WIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 05:22
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

No, I was just curious, as I am in the fairly early stages of testing a Z6 myself.
 
I can see why Swarovski would suggest 30mm scopes on heavier kickers, as they use different erector springs in their 30mm scopes than in their 1" scopes. I am trying to run down two different stories that are apparently coming from Zeiss about which scopes are best for heavy recoil. I suspect Trijicon uses the same erector system in both the 30mm and 1" scopes.


JB

DID YOU EVER GET AN ANSWER FROM ZEISS ON THIS?
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