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I need more Power

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2014 at 16:51
jmr1969 View Drop Down
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I currently have a Zeiss conquest 6.5-20x50 and I love it! In the back yard 50 to 100 yards its great!
I am in the process of upgrading my Action and barrel and lastly Optics. So I was looking at Night Force Keep in mind I work for a living and this is my hobby not my job or lively-hood. The 1700 ish NF is up to 32 power but further digging on there site I found a 2014 Competition model that was around 2300 or so and was 55 power I am building this rifle for 600-1000 yards and will never buy optics like this again so my question is this the best use of my money to power to get something good?

  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2014 at 17:01
supertool73 View Drop Down
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55x?  Wowza.  The higher the mag the more you have issues with mirage, shake, glass imperfections, low exit pupil (darker images) etc. 

I have never owned a scope over 24 and seldom use one over 15x.  I shoot out to 1000 yards often.

But to each his own.  If you want super high magnification, buy the best glass quality you can get.  Nightforce has decent glass, but others have better.  Zeiss, Swaro, IOR, March, are a few of the good ones.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2014 at 17:28
Sparky View Drop Down
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I have the NF 8-32 and rarely use it over the low 20s. Mirage and shake get to be too much for me.

Also I do not know what cal you are shooting and so do not know what drop you will have. So keep in mind that the NF 8-32 BR has 50MOA of elevation and the NXS has 65MOA of elevation.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2014 at 17:40
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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I heartily concur with the other Gents. More magnification, doesn't always pan out the way you think it should/would. Stuff gets wonky at those power levels.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2014 at 18:10
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If you want to try out "more power" inexpensively with good glass, retain a backup, try the Swift Premier 8-32.  It will let you know if you want to jump to higher powers.  Also, check out the March target line.  Personally, I would just go ahead...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 08:56
jmr1969 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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In my head to see the shot and try to put the next one in it i feel like if i can't see it clearly than I can't hit it. So mirage is an issue with Nightforce? As I said I love my Zeiss Conquest but its only 20 power.
So why do so many people used fixed magnification?   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 10:21
koshkin View Drop Down
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Mirage is an issue with any high magnification scope when it gets hot enough.

Ultimately, what you need to figure out is how much money you want to spend.

If this is a rifle that you are never going to carry around, it really does not matter much how large of a scope you put on it and how high the top magnification is as long as you can still dial it down low enough for use in difficult lighting conditions.

A cheap scope that goes to very high magnification will not do you any good because it will nto have good enough image quality to work well when you dial it up.

Also, depending on which cartridge you use, you need to be careful with how much elevation adjustment you have in the scope.  Some high magnification scopes are limited in that regard.

Generally, high magnification scopes acceptable for long range shooting start with Sightron S3 6-24x50 and 8-32x56 at right around $1000.  On the opposite end of the spectrum, if you decide to get the best, you should be looking at March scopes at around $3k.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 10:24
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Mirage becomes more of an issue the higher the mag you go.  Once you hit about 14x mirage really starts to get noticeable.  Then the higher you go the worse it gets.  Obviously the hotter and sunnier it is outside the worse it is also. Ontop of that at high mags you are magnifying all the imperfections in the glass, which is why you want the best glass possible. 

Even the heat coming off your barrel gets more noticeable at higher mags. 

But as long as you are able to turn the mag down enough that you are able to shoot you are okay.  So a 10x-50x would probably do what you want.  Except you may be wasting all that high end magnification most of the time.   

Its not that a Nightforce is not a great scope with good glass.  Its just that 55x is crazy high and you will want superb glass for that.  The 8-32x would be different IMO, as 32x is a lot different than 55x. 


Edited by supertool73 - September/18/2014 at 10:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 10:28
jonoMT View Drop Down
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Please don't take this the wrong way. It sounds more like a conceptual issue. I had trouble getting used to a sight picture using iron sights until I realized it was okay that the target was blurry. To elaborate, with the M1 Garand, I needed to focus on the front sight, leaving both the ghost ring (rear sight) and the target blurry. On top of that, the rifle is sighted in so that the front sight actually obscures part of the target.

This doesn't mean I can't hit it. The important thing is that the sight is aimed at the middle of the target. As long as you can see it...blurry or not...you can shoot at it.

Getting back to optical sights, you'd be amazed what a difference really good glass makes. For example, a 3-15X scope with German glass will avoid mirage/shaking issues while adding clarity to the sight picture. I've seen and felt the difference comparing great glass to poor glass with much higher magnification. Just the other day, we were glassing a black bear at ~500 yards. The new Vortex Talon 8X bins I had (which aren't even close to uber glass) made that bear stand out. I took a look through my friend's Stokes Sandpiper spotting scope (also made by Vortex a while back) at 18X and even at 36X. It was like looking through the bottom of a Vaseline jar.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 12:20
jmr1969 View Drop Down
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So if you can't see it how can you hit it?(its prolly a pipe dream to see the first hole sharp enough and big enough to hit it again) But I spent 600+ on my Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50 and its great but i do think its first plane not second which at long range is a big deal right? As far as Price I really will have a hard time with anything much over 2k the Schmidt & Bender I like is over 3k can you say Lay Away? lol I HATE spending good money on something I won't be happy with. The Zeiss I have is sharper than my father Leo that he spent almost double on 5 -7 years ago and I realize that a lot can change in a few years. So 

1. Second Plane reticle
2. Best glass I can afford
3. Most magnification that meets t1 and 2
4. Under 2k preferred.
5. Side focus is pretty standard these days.

Even the Zeiss that's 25x is 3k
I am a weekend shooter 

Thanks again for all the help! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 12:45
koshkin View Drop Down
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The Conquest is a 2nd FP scope.

If you are shopping under $2k, save some money and get yourself this:


To do meaningfully better for your application you have to go beyond $2k.

Spend the money you saved on some instruction.

ILya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 14:06
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Seeing bullet holes beyond 400 yards is even tough with a spotting scope.  600 to 1000 yards is going to be really tough.  There will be so much shake at the high of a mag with a rifle you will not be able to hold it steady enough to tell what the bullet holes are.  Also because of the extremely low exit pupil it will make the image very dark so bullet holes are hard to see.  So if that is your intent for a high mag I don't think it will be workable at those distances.

If it is just about seeing your holes maybe consider a good spotting scope.  As Jon said earlier your target will most likely be a bit blurry anyway.  The focus of your eyes should be on the reticle not the target.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 15:04
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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There are companies now that make cameras and interface with a tablet or iPhone, that is about your only option for seeing bullet holes at 400 and above. You can watch the vapor trail, but seeing the actual hole, good luck. Forget spotter or scope, get a range camera.

I run a good spotter and have good eyes and it just doesn't work.

I always, always prefer good glass to more magnification. Even my 20X scopes don't get to 20 much, I shoot best around 15. Then again, my shots are field conditions.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 15:18
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That's why my favorite target at the local range is the 2" gong @ 300. Nothing like hearing a good, satisfying thwack. Big Smile

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 19:40
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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That is true, there is one thing better, but it wouldn't be appropriate to post here.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 22:28
Sparky View Drop Down
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Originally posted by jmr1969 jmr1969 wrote:


So if you can't see it how can you hit it?(its prolly a pipe dream to see the first hole sharp enough and big enough to hit it again)


One of the ranges I shoot at has a military issue cast bullet shoot where guys are shooting 200yds with iron sights. You do not need to see the bullet hole in order to shoot at a target.

And I know a number of people who shoot at a 1000yds with a 10x scope. Think of it this way a 1000yds with a 10x scope is similar to looking at a target at 100yds without any magnification. Can you see the target at 100yds?

And it has been said before a number of times, but make sure the scope has enough elevation adjustment to reach the distances you want to shoot. Just because you can hit the target at 100yds does not mean you will be about to reach out further without adjusting your scope. I am guessing you are shooting factory ammo. So to get an idea of the drop at longer distances look at the drop table on your ammo box.

BTW Your Conquest has about 50MOA of elevation adjustment and so that means you have about 25MOA left.
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