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I Know We Are Generous But Come On

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2016 at 14:57
Chris Farris View Drop Down
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A customer purchased a SS 16x42 MQ in August of 2015, calls yesterday and says he has spent 10 months trying to sight it in and used over 500 rounds of hand loads using up half of his barrel life and can not get it sighted in.  Says he replaced it with another scope and it worked fine........so he wants us to replace it with a 5-20x to compensate him for his ammo, barrel and time.

I thought it was a joke at first.  We asked what mount did he use on his Savage Model 10 FCTFR .308 as we noticed he has purchased our SSALT mount too and he said he used it, then back tracked and said, no that is on my AR, I used regular two piece rings.  We asked what rings he used and what scope he used when he took the SS off and replaced it with another scope that worked.  He said same rings, he just took the SS off and put on a Nikon Pro Staff 4-12x.  When we asked him are you sure because the SS is 30mm and the Burris is 1", he replied that he forgot and he changed rings too.  He was using "Millet See-Thru Picatinny style tactical rings" on the Savage with the SS (way too high and not known to be the best rings).

We told him you cannot narrow down what is causing a problem when you change everything, you have to systematically change one thing at a time.  We thoroughly tested the SS he returned and determined that nothing was wrong with the scope.

So now we try to make him happy by offering to take his nearly one year old used SS on trade offering him $250 on trade toward a SS 5-20x or 3-15x and offered to reduce the price of either by 20% to keep him as a loyal customer.  He refused and still wanted us to give him a 5-20x for his time and ammo.  We told him we could not stay in business long doing things like that, so we offered to send him a new 16x at no charge and he accepted that but was not happy.

He said he would be doing some online reviews of his experience so if you see anything pop up let us know so we can tell the whole story.

He sent us three of his forty targets that he claims prove the SS 16x was defective.




Edited by Chris Farris - June/24/2016 at 15:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2016 at 15:12
BeltFed View Drop Down
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Wonder if he's going to ask Savage for a new rifle too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2016 at 15:26
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Chris you should have said very nicely that you sell quality products but unfortunately you don't sell ability or brains.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2016 at 15:48
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Maybe he should see Mike McDonald's "groups" when using a Savage and a SS. You know...just as a reference. 

Bear in mind folks...This is a TWO.. SEPARATE..FIVE shot groups fired out a stock Savage and a SS 10x...as Mike say's "lying prone in the dirt".





 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2016 at 15:54
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I've never seen a set of "see through" rings I liked… but that's just me.  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2016 at 16:16
Chris Farris View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I've never seen a set of "see through" rings I liked… but that's just me. 

I found his ring choice to be contradictory to his apparent quest for benchrest type accuracy myself.  They don't even make those rings any longer (for a reason).  When we sold them we had many returns and broke quite a few ourselves installing them.  We heard a rumor (from a reputable source) that they were made from recycled aluminum cans in China.

See through rings on a rifle that has no sights is odd, it just makes for inconsistent and awkward head placement.  I think we should send him a set of low SS-Tac rings with his replacement scope.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2016 at 16:28
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Millet....Light It Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2016 at 17:26
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I assume it was Nikon ProStaff, not Burris.  I'll keep an eye out if I see this character show up anywhere reputable.  I know that he will get laughed at on most forums like the Hide and others.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2016 at 20:35
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Millet Angle-Locs are awesome rings… everything else is poor…  They once made a pretty good scope, then they went cheap…
I've used Angle-Locs on some pretty heavy bangers and never had an issue, was introduced to them by a Viet-Nam era Marine Corps sniper.  I figured if they were good enough for him, they were darn sure good enough for me.  
The problem, that I have seen, that most people have with them is THEY DON'T READ AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS…
The "sight through" rings are a different story.  I wouldn't use them on a broomstick "gun"… might cause a miss...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2016 at 20:46
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Chris,
This is how confident I am in SWFA SS (and any other SWFA) products.  You've told us that your personnel checked out that scope and found no problems.  I will buy it, perform a DETAILED review of it and then let SWFA choose a category for me to donate it to in the upcoming September Guardian Shoot.  There are very few optics out there that I have that much faith in.  Send it...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2016 at 21:41
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I think Peddlers signature line is very appropriate here.

Chris I think you have been very very generous with him. You caught him in numerous (cough cough) inaccuracies in his story. And just what sort of unique individual takes 500 rounds to figure out the scope is broken??? I would like to see the targets with the "other scope" and how they differ.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 07:40
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500 rounds? Slow learner huh? Although, I rarely go to the range with less! I wonder if I bought a VW can I ask for a Porsche. You know my gas mileage.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 13:10
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Originally posted by Steelbenz Steelbenz wrote:

500 rounds? Slow learner huh? Although, I rarely go to the range with less! I wonder if I bought a VW can I ask for a Porsche. You know my gas mileage.



Sense the faint whiff of sarcasm there, Mike. Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 13:19
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Bang. Bang. Bang. Hmm? Switch rings. Bang. Bang. Bang. Hmm? Switch scope and rings. Bang. Bang. Bang. Hmm? Switch rings around, turn scope backwards. Bang. Bang. Bang. Hmm? Dial up 12 clicks, down 34, right 18, left 25. Close both eyes. Bang. Bang. Bang. Hmm? Hold rifle between thighs and pull trigger with coat hanger. Bang. Bang. Bang. Hmm? Add curved WWII German muzzle adaptor to shoot around corners. Bang. Bang. Bang. Hmm?

Uh, oh. Rusty ammo can of surplus 1958 Congolese "black cat" reloads is empty. Now where did I buy this stuff? Oh, yeah! SWFA. I'll get those jerks to pay for this.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 15:24
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What if it really is all about the .........HOKEY POKEY!!!!!

Sharp ShooterEek
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 15:32
Chris Farris View Drop Down
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I assume it was Nikon ProStaff, not Burris.  I'll keep an eye out if I see this character show up anywhere reputable.  I know that he will get laughed at on most forums like the Hide and others.

ILya


Typo corrected.  Clown

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 17:51
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I'll repeat Dan's offer, send me the scope, I'll put it on a laser of a rifle, put 20 through it, and post the pic of the 20 holes.  I can do a torture box test and a 10mil spot check.

I have yet to find a range commando admit that the problem is the Indian and not the bow.  And if I claimed to have put 500 rounds down the tube, I'd have more than a few pictures to show it.

Loyal customers are a great thing for a company, liars don't count much in that mix.  If the story changes that often and that dramatically, he or she will claim whatever he or she wants online, regardless of what you do and regardless of what the scope can do.

This is an opportunist.  If he writes a bad review, he'll get questions he can't answer, or he'll spew some of the same crap he already gave you (SSALT on a bolt gun, swapped scoped in same rings - though one is 30mm and one is 1 inch) and the weight given the review will be proportional.

Your offer is generous.

I've run at least 15 SS scopes over the years, have yet to run one that would produce that result - assuming I did my part.  I'm sure they fail, but that isn't a failure of the optic, that is piss-poor shooting.

Was he drunk when he was shooting?  Worth asking, looks that way to me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 17:57
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Read my signature!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 18:04
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Wow, RC. You've been here since early '05??     
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 18:09
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To both of you👍👍👍🍸🍸🍸.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 18:17
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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I've never witnessed a company bend over backassward to satisfy some of the most unreasonable son of a pups you ever saw, than SWFA. I mean that.   

    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 19:25
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

I've never witnessed a company bend over backassward to satisfy some of the most unreasonable son of a pups you ever saw, than SWFA. I mean that.   

    
I will second that!


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 21:24
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I built a 10/22 for the Chevy Truck Team Challenge. That gun was soo repeatable that it was boring. Every time a guy blamed his scope for "tracking" issues, i would throw his scope on it. Then proceed to shoot beautiful boxes with it. Never found a "problem" scope.
I have been to many schools, and saw many brands fail during training. Never saw an SS fail. EVER. Still have 7 of em.
Just had a guy bring me a 1-4 classic with a bad turret. Found the cap to be loose. Explained "scale slipping" to him and why we do it. Now he loves his optic.
Not saying there are no failed SS's. Just saying that in 19 years and encountering at least 40 units in both training and in the field, i have yet to see one.
I have 7, will buy 3 more in November. If one should actually fail, i am confident Chris and Skylar will make it right.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 22:19
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In all fairness, even SS scopes fail sometimes, it is simply a matter of materials, tolerances, and the law of large numbers - and Murohy gets a mention too.

That said, I'd bet for every 10 scopes (maybe 100) that customers call defective, they find 1 with a mechanical or material flaw.

I've broken an optic or 10. I've sheered off turrets on barricades, I've stripped elevation turret set screws, I've shot out wire reticle, I've killed illumination systems, I even caved in a tube once; but none of those failures would look on paper like what the guy is claiming.

I'd bet the purchase price of that optic that I could put 10 rounds touching at 100 yards.

Broke scope my ass, guy needs some practice and some training.
Lastly, I've had a scope issue or 2, never took 500 rounds to convince me. And I am a stubborn mule of a man.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2016 at 22:20
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:


I have yet to find a range commando admit that the problem is the Indian and not the bow.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Boom, and there it is. I think RC nailed the problem. You all know I sell optics too. Sometimes I run in to the same problems with folks.
I take a questionable scope, put it on my SAKO, and often punch a single hole, 3 shot group. Customer never wants to see the target, they just want you to upgrade them at no cost.
 I once took a customers' rifle and scope combo, and fired 3 sets of groups on target using MY ammo, and proved the rig to my satisfaction. Customer just muttered under his breath and took it back. Haven't heard from him since.
 I'm getting older, and my aim isn't what it used to be, but I could probably outdo what I see at the top of the page. 
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