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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 08:29
scout14 View Drop Down
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Does a tactical scope make a good hunting scope? And if so what are the good cross over qualities? Specifics i need to know are FFP or SFP, mildot or something else, illumination? I enjoy long range shooting at steel and paper, but i am primarily a hunter. This will not be a dangerous game type scope. I have very accurate rifle and i am looking for the set up to help me reach out there with it. I feel i can master any of the ranging reticles but will primarily use a range finder. I currently have a Zeiss with the RZ800 but want to explore other options, kind of the Huskemaw set up optimized, and yes i know about Kenton Ind..
Thanks in advance for your help.
t
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 09:03
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Huskemaw is generally accepted to be a not-great scope at a very high price, I wouldn't call it a good optic, for hunting or otherwise.

The primary "difference" between most hunting scopes and most tactical scopes is weight and size: hunters are generally smaller, fewer protruding parts (to snag brush and tree limbs), and less weight.  In contract, tactical scopes are usually heavier (since going on a heavy gun, no need to save ounces), protruding knobs that are easy to get to and adjust, some features specific to their unique task.

Most hunting scopes are SFP, but some are FFP. The trick to FFP is having a zoom range where the reticle doesn't disappear at the bottom or overwhelm at the top - and that is a tricky proposition. 

The primary advantages to FFP are the capacity to range at any power and the capacity to adjust fire based on the reticle (be advised: to do this quickly and well, you need a reticle that matches the turrets: mil/mil or MOA/MOA.)

In terms of glass quality and reliability, there is no difference.  The best optics companies usually offer both hunting and tactical scopes.

If putting together an 8-pound stalking gun, you don't want a 2.5-pound scope that throws off balance and overwhelms the rifle.  Likewise, if setting up a 12-pound tactical gun, you don't usually want capped turrets and you don't care about mounting a scope that throws off balance.

Hope that helps,


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 09:32
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Well that is good info, but I'd really like to know which specific scopes you believe cross over well. I do realize tactical scopes are heavy 30 to 32oz. versus 19 oz for a hunting scope. I can deal with that.  I agree on the Huskemaw opinon, i have seen it on the range and agree, thats why i am looking for a better option.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 09:57
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Any tactical scope can be a great hunting scope, depending on what is required.

I went elk hunting last week with a Premier 3-15 on a tactical 300WM and could not ahve been better served.

The biggest delineation is weight and size: a heavy scope can throw off the balance and handling of a small rifle.  Additionally, target knobs can be bad if you are moving through heavy brush as they extend out and can hang on things.  The same is true of some illumination knobs.

Let me know what rifle it will be going on and I can help.

Also, let me know what is needed and why. 

I hunted for many years with big, clunky Nightforce scopes and was very, very happy with the results, but it was box or blind hunting, not stalking.  I stalk more now and use a very different setup.

Conditions and environment will dictate what works best.  Give some details and I will help if I can.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 10:09
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One thing I am sure Rancid would agree with is that there's getting to be a lot more cross-over now with scopes. Not only is every hunting-scope manufacturer starting to offer a "tactical" model of some of their hunting scopes (with features like easily-adjustable turrets, 30mm tubes and speciality reticles) but many of the tactical-scaope manufacturers are making more hunting-friendly scopes that are lighter, among other things. So the line between hunting and tactical scopes is blurring....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 10:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 10:25
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I hunt with the 2.5-10x32 all the time on my mountain rifle and it is a great scope. The knobs don't stick out that far and have never caught on anything. It's only 12" and while the 19 oz. may seem heavy compared to most hunting scopes, it tracks great and is built solid. The glass is not the best but it is very good. Given that 10X is the upper end, it really doesn't matter that this is an SFP scope because I've never really felt like ranging at any lower magnification. There's really little need to below 300 yards. (And, BTW, I range animals with it just to see how close I can come to my LRF, but I've never taken a shot at one based on the reticle). I do wish I had gotten it with zero-stop because there is no indication that you've taken it past one turn.

I also have the Premier 3-15X50 and that is really more for target shooting and open land hunting. It's also on a heavier rifle. According to pg. 3 of this article (http://winva.com/pdf/websiteArticles/2009.8_PremierReticles.pdf), Premier is supposedly going to offer a hunting scope next year for "half the price." Not sure that would mean half the weight though!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 12:45
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I plan on useing this scope on my Blaser rifle in both 6.5x55 and 300 win mag. I have the match versions of these barrels, both are extremely accurate. I have another rifle(264 win mag) that would go as my mountain rifle, but that is not to say weight it is of no concern. This rifle is now at 9.3 pounds w/ the Zeiss on top, so, for a bean field rifle it is very manageable,and way lighter than an AI tactical rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 12:54
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Have you seen the Kahles Multizero? 
Could use same scope for different weight bullets...

Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - November/16/2009 at 12:55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 13:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 15:41
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

Have you seen the Kahles Multizero? 
Could use same scope for different weight bullets...


I thought these were really cool and considered getting one last year. But with Kahles gone from the U.S. market and nobody to really back their scopes up, it seemed too risky.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 19:36
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FOR THE PRICE YOU COULD BUY TWO...
 
I keep on hearing about having problems but I have never talked to anyone who has had problems...
 
I have put Kahles on 50's 338's 458's and never had any issues...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 20:32
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

FOR THE PRICE YOU COULD BUY TWO...
 
I keep on hearing about having problems but I have never talked to anyone who has had problems...
 
I have put Kahles on 50's 338's 458's and never had any issues...

the chances are that you probably wont find more than two people who have actually had issues with kahles scopes. its shame that somebody like bushnell wouldnt pick them up, course then your running into the same issue that they had with swaro.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2009 at 23:30
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I would love to buy a Kahles MultiZero and still might. But I own a VX-3 4.5x14x40 Long Range,which means 30mm and it has the (CDS) Custom Dial System. So it does the same thing as the Huskemaw , actually both these scopes do the same thing as the Huskemaw. As far as Im concerned I would buy either over the Huskemaw as well...Thats just what I would do......I have to admit the BOTW crew has left a very bad taste in my mouth now..

Edited by JF4545 - November/16/2009 at 23:59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2009 at 02:12
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Leupold 6x42 FX-3 Competition Hunter Riflescope Target Dot Leupold 6x42 FX-3 Competition Hunter Riflescope
Stock # - LEU66825
  • Matte
  • Target Dot
  • 1"
  • Adjustable Objective
  • Xtended Twilight Lens System
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2009 at 16:19
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Why would anyone one want a target dot as a big game scope?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2009 at 18:06
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I tried to use a 2-7x32 NcSTAR sniper scope last week on a M1A hunting in Missouri. At 40 yards I could not see the small 4 point antlers on a buck. Thinking it was a doe I took the shot and then chased the darn thing several hunderd yards through the puck-a-brush.  It was a legal take down but I blew my deer tag on a retarded buck. The rack looks like something off a "Jackalope".
So, IMHO, I'd not use that scope again un less I'm just punching paper for the fun of it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2009 at 18:32
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

Have you seen the Kahles Multizero? 
Could use same scope for different weight bullets...


I thought these were really cool and considered getting one last year. But with Kahles gone from the U.S. market and nobody to really back their scopes up, it seemed too risky.
I still want one!! wish I could find a 4-12 that I could afford. Been checking the samplist.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2009 at 19:12
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If you have a chance to pick up a Kahles MZ, do it.  I have 2 of the 4x12x52's, one on a 338RUM and one on a 280AI.  When at the range today I was shooting both the Kahles, a Swarovski 4x16x50 Habicht and a 4.5x14x44 Conquest.  Everytime I used one of the Kahles the thought came into my head without thinking about it that they were amazingly bright, much more so than the Swarovski or the Conquest.  The clarity and resolution was best on the Conquest however but marginally so over the Kahles.
 
The Swarovski was last all the way around, especially with the objective parallax adjustment.  PITA now to reach up to the front of the scope and try to maintain a sight picture and adjust the picture (shooting at 200 and 300 yards).  Kinda glad it is not mine.
 
I guess you could call the MultiZeros a crossover since you adjust the turrets for long range but they are definitely a hunting scope.  The one on the 338RUM seems to be taking the punishment well.  No problems with either so far.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2009 at 19:26
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just depends on how much you like sleek and racy (hunting rifle) or big and bulky (tactical rifle). any scope trying to do both usually ends up towards the back of the pack when compared to the specialty each has to offer. A good tactical rifle (with true tactical scope) can certainly go hunting, but its not very fair to the game. On the other hand a tactical scope doesn't fit into the light and responsive group either.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2009 at 20:23
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Dale,
 
Would like to hear some more about "it's not very fair to the game."
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2009 at 20:35
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I don't want to play fair! I'll take all the help I can get. Not that a great rifle can make a poor shooter a good shot, but they can give an average shooter a little confidence.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2009 at 09:36
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physical conditions, terrain, hunters errors (sighting, shooting, hangover) bitchy horses make a hunt what it is, the gun is just along for the ride--but considering its role in the statistics of the kill, although a rifle by definition is a killing machine, some rifles are designed from the stock up for better killing including extended ranges etc. In returning to the "hunt" many have gone back to bows, black powder etc. to regain some of the flavor. No doubt a "tactical" machine would make a swifter cleaner kill on the animal, but so does air support. It kind of like shooting a pheasant on the ground.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2009 at 09:57
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I like the way Dale just cuts through the underbrush and gets right to the point.   Thunbs Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2009 at 16:29
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Dale, I appreciate your point of view but there are a few reasons why a highly accurate rifle and a well-practiced shooter who borrows knowledge from the tactical world can be a good thing while hunting. I have seen enough hunters who have crappy rifles with crappy scopes and who never go out to the range more than once a year out firing indiscriminately at every animal they see. The results can be ugly and sometimes dangerous.

This past Friday I took my brother-in-law hunting and shot a white tail doe. It was only about 75 yards away so not much to think about. But that's part of my point. I have a sub-MOA rifle with a very reliable tactical scope on it and I knew without thinking that I would hit right where I aimed when she paused for a second. I took pride in being able to point out to someone who is considering hunting why I shot where I did and why no meat was damaged. Then I carefully explained each step of how I field dress an animal to fairly quickly cool the meat but avoid damaging or contaminating it with hair, feces or urine.

If you get right down to it and want to get all philosophical about what is ethical and fair hunting, the answer is going to lie somewhere between the extremes. On one hand, very few of us really need the meat and any technical means beyond a spear or rock offers some sort of advantage. The animals we hunt are largely hemmed into relatively small parts of their historic habitat. We have clothing and backpacks, cellphones and camelbaks. But most of us know that we have to draw the line somewhere: No radioing or calling buddies to tell them where an animal is hiding, no external illumination (in those places where it is illegal), no wasting of game animals or trespassing. But no matter what, even though all the equipment we do have is far short of "air support" and 1200-round/minute automatic weapons, modern-day hunting is as always going to be artificial.

Is there really, truly any pure hunting? If I hunt with my M1 Garand (as I have...once) do I make it more fair to the animal? If I go back to an atlatl or hand-made bow with stone points will that make me as noble as the subsistence hunters that once roamed Montana? Or did they even violate that image of the noble hunter by driving whole herds of animals off cliffs? Like I said, the answer lies somewhere in between. Don't be a pig and don't cheat are two rules I live by. Being prepared to take a shot under the right conditions out to 400 yards is, IMO, not a bad rule either.
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