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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2012 at 08:26
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So, I just bought a pair of what I consider to be nice bino’s last year. Vortex razor 10 x 42. I know theres a lot better out there, but these so far have served me fine. Currently, on my deer hunting rifle, I have a Leupold 3 x 9 x 50 scope. I have discovered that the binos give me several more minutes of good visibility as compared to the scope.  I’m contemplating the idea of stepping my scope up a notch. Have considered the lower level Z3 swar or even the Zeiss conquest.  Not being able to actually “test run” these scopes at twilight, are they going to help me with much more light gathering capability than my current 15 year old Leupold?? 

Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2012 at 11:27
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I believe you are moving in the right direction. I have been using Zeiss binoculars since 1985 and ran into the same problem many times. I started upgrading scopes quite awhile back because of this.
The Z3 and Conquest are a great starting point to match up with your Razors.
 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2012 at 13:15
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I will share a secret with you.Well it is getting around to quite a few folks these days and I have to say there was a time when I was skeptical; but I have bought and tested  two Meopta scopes lately and have to say in my opinion they will not be beat at their price point ;and in some cases beyond that.I set up a Meopro 3-9X42 #4 reticle ($399 SWFA) for a gentleman in our hunting club and he also is very pleased.He only heard of Meopta up until a  few weeks ago.I compared at low light  the Meopta with a Swarovski 3-10x42 1in. and a Kahles 3-9x42 1in.tube and it was tie.Neither of these scopes were any brighter to my eyes.I also took a 3-9x40 Conquest and compared and thought the Meopta was brighter and lower priced. If you want to carry your performance a little further step up to the Meostar R1 in either the 3-10x50 ($779 SWFA) or the 3-12x56 ( $849 SWFA)This past Thursday at a friend of mines store we took for a low light test the Zeiss Divari 3-12x56 #8,Trijicon 2.5-10x56 duplex green dot and the Meostar 3-12x56 z-plex and we both concluded that that the Diavari had only a slight edge and took a bit of looking to even come to that.The Trijicon was a little less than the others optically but the green dot made it well capable.Also the Meopro is available with a lighted reticle.I think the Meostar will get you more connected with your binoculars and if you are on a lesser budget the Meopro #4 will be a tough act to follow at $399.You mentioned you had a Leupold 3-9x50;I do as well (vx-2) and in  comparing the Meopro 3-9x42 was no contest for the Meostar both in low light and daylight to me.

Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2012 at 13:49
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A 15 year old Leupold 3-9 makes it a Vari-XII, and I think those were all single coated.
A similar sized Leupold VX-3, VX-R, or the new VX-2 that's coming out, or Bushnell Elite, Nikon Monarch, Zeiss, Minox, Meopta, Sightron Big Sky, Weaver Grand Slam, or Vortex Viper should give you a significantly better image as the sun goes down.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2012 at 02:59
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FYI...Currently the MeoPro 3-9x42, 4-12x50 and 6-18x50 models do not offer illuminated reticle options, but that is something to look forward to in the near future.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2012 at 05:58
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I'd definitely step up a notch or two on your rifle scope. Wait till that big buck appears at dusk...just "sayin". The Meopta's are super nice as are several others. It's time to start comparing! LOL. BTW, welcome to the OT Forum. Yippee
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2012 at 08:20
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wow, great info guys. thanks.
 
and yes, its the VX II model.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2012 at 08:40
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FYI, SWFA has made a mistake in the specs of the MeoPro and listed it at 16" long.It does weigh 16oz according to the Meopta web site but is 12.4" long. I'm sure it was an honest mistake and one easily made but it did put me off the scope when I was looking for my last purchase. 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2012 at 09:57
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Yes,I meant to say the Meopta Meostar offered a lighted reticle.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2012 at 10:33
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I found the same problem as you once I got my Meopta binos.  I had to start upgrading scopes as well as I hated not being able to see the same quality images in my scopes.  The Swaro would be an excellent choice.  As would the Conquest of the Meopta's. 

I have a Meopta Artemis, optics are very good.  I also have a Swaro Z6, optics are outstanding.  I also have a Sightron Big Sky, and they have great optics as well.  Although I don't think they are as good as the Meopta I have. 

And for what it is worth, I think the Razors are an excellent bino.  I test drove a pair for a few weeks and thought they were very comparable to my Meopta binos. 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2012 at 10:54
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Because it needs to be said:  a very good rifle scope will not be as bright as a very good pair of binos, due to several factors.

Yes, an upgrade in rifle optics will give you several more minutes of shooting time, but don't expect a rifle scope at 10X to be as bright as your 10x42s.

A friend has the Razor 10x42s, really liked them.  I have the razor spotter, and am very happy with it.  Vortex makes good stuff.

Swaro has great glass, Conquest will be good, but not as good as Swaro.  I have owned both (Swaro and Conquest) and swapped all the Conquests for Swaros or Zeiss Victory.


Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2012 at 12:17
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The Swarovski Z3 at the last bit of light will be like having night vision. I would not have belived it if I had'nt seen it for myself.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2012 at 16:25
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Originally posted by jehu jehu wrote:

The Swarovski Z3 at the last bit of light will be like having night vision. I would not have belived it if I had'nt seen it for myself.

This is one of the more stupid things I've ever read posted about a riflescope.  Comparing my neighbor's Swaro A (same as Z3 glass) and my VX3 3.5-10x40 CDS, there's not a nickle's worth of difference between them, and both will get you past legal shooting light anyway.  With the FX3 heavy duplex you can see the reticle longer through the Leupy.  
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 06:51
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It is just a coment about the light gathering ability of the scope in low light, no need to get your panties in a twist, no ones saying anything bad about your scope choice.Loco
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 08:27
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I got to agree , nightvison is a bad comparison! I doubt 19 out of 20 average hunter's could tell the difference between a Nikon Monarch or Bushnell 4200 than a Swaro Z3 or Zeiss Diavari at last light on a deer hunt. Of course the guys on this site that are very knowlegable would have absolutely no trouble but I doubt many guys at an average hunting camp would know in a "blind" testing situation with no markings to tell them what brand they were looking through. I know people right now that I could slap a Zeiss sticker on a Nikon Monarch they currently use and they would tell you that it's the brightest scope they have ever looked through in their life !

 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 09:38
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The OP asked specifically about the Swarovski Z3's performance in "twilight" conditions from someone who owns one and has experiance with them. I made a parable that was to the point and maybe not the best in your opinion. I don't understand peoples radical defensive posture about their scope purchases when ever upper line scopes are discussed on this board.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 09:50
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They just does not want someone to buy a Swaro expecting it to be like night vision as they are not.  JGraider's going about it was a little harsh I agree. 

I have a z6 and while it is a very nice scope it is certainly not like night vision.  It gives me a few extra minutes in the evenings and offers a nicer view during the day than any other scope I own.  
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 10:22
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I'm not going radical, just saying it's a bad comparison in my opinion !
 
Best expample I can think of right now on good glass is my bino's. I have Leica Ultravid BR 10X42's, my Dad has Bushnell Legend HD 10x42's. We hunted together last year in a big shooting house at my friend's camp until pitch dark. He wanted to compare his new bino's to mine and we both agree mine are better but he said he would never pay what I did for mine for "that" difference. I looked through his and they were just as bright as mine at dark but there was not  as much detail, they were not as nice to look through, there was not "as" much difference in images in the woods around the field(or back off the edge of the field). But if a deer walked out in the field we would both be able to se it. We could both essientially choose to shoot the same deer out in the field. But would I wrather look through mine...........all day (especially glassing for 15minutes straight at dark/no question)! But I will not tell anybody mine are night and day difference. And to be honest..........I don't know if I would pay that much again when there are great bino's for less than $800. But I am definately glad I already have mine and they are paid for !
 
I have had Swarovski PV,Zeiss Diavari,and Kahles Helia C scopes....and Conquests,Bushnell 4200 types..... and feel about the same way with them as the above bino's. 
 
I am actually hunting right now with my Leica bino's and a 4200 scope. All I need IMHO !
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 11:58
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Originally posted by cbm cbm wrote:

I got to agree , nightvison is a bad comparison! I doubt 19 out of 20 average hunter's could tell the difference between a Nikon Monarch or Bushnell 4200 than a Swaro Z3 or Zeiss Diavari at last light on a deer hunt. Of course the guys on this site that are very knowlegable would have absolutely no trouble but I doubt many guys at an average hunting camp would know in a "blind" testing situation with no markings to tell them what brand they were looking through. I know people right now that I could slap a Zeiss sticker on a Nikon Monarch they currently use and they would tell you that it's the brightest scope they have ever looked through in their life !

 


You are 100% correct on these blind tests, IMO. 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 12:03
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

They just does not want someone to buy a Swaro expecting it to be like night vision as they are not.  JGraider's going about it was a little harsh I agree

I have a z6 and while it is a very nice scope it is certainly not like night vision.  It gives me a few extra minutes in the evenings and offers a nicer view during the day than any other scope I own.  


I'm all about dispelling lies and untruths, in a very politically incorrect way I guess.  I made a comment based on information I've personally gathered over the years, in the field, hunting, about 1"/30mm tube riflescopes and you'd have thought I insulted the guys wife and children.  Geeeesh!  


Edited by JGRaider - January/04/2012 at 12:04
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 12:39
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I was not offended by your comment and my comment on the Z3 was not meant to be a literal comparison to night vision optics, there being a vast difference in the two, which I thought most people would have understood. You have insinuated that I am stupid and now a liar all over an internet post. Spend the $ you say you saved on your scope purchases on some anger management sessions.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 12:41
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I don't think anyone is angry my friend.  Just making sure your comment was corrected so readers who don't know better will not get the wrong idea.  
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 12:44
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Thankyou Sir, that was not my intention.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 12:58
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I would like to say that I really enjoy these discussions and hope we can keep things civil enough to keep the thread open.
 
As a hunter I have I have used Leupold VariX and VXII's for 25 years.I recently purchased a Zeiss Conquest 3-9X40 and I do like the higher resolution and contrast in low light that I seem to see.I say seem because this topic is so subjective.
 
I have not tried the New Leupold VX3's however and expect them to be better than my VXII's.While I like the Zeiss and would buy another there are some things I like better about my Leupolds,namely size,weight and the seemingly (to me) less critical eye placement necessary for a perfect sight picture.
 
Now as a hunter I really need to know how much better optically an $800 - $2000 European scope is than a $400 VX3. The only way for me to tell would be to hunt with it.They all look good in the store's lighting. I'm sure they are better but are the differences only visible with test cards?Keep in mind I'm not an optics snob,just a hunter. There is also the question of how much of a trade off in other areas that matter to me do I have to make for better glass.
 
I'm the kind of guy that wants to own the best,as I'm sure all of you are, and while I understand folks giving wonderful reviews of their new expensive european optic,I also want to hear the other side from folks that just hunt. I don't want to spend 4 times the money on optics and only experience a small advantage based on my needs as a hunter VS an optics connoisseur,while having to give up other factors that really matter to me.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2012 at 13:03
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some people like the ford taurus some people like the cadillac cts and some people like ferrari's. its all a matter of preference imo.


i myself cant afford $1000 for a scope on a $700 rifle. i can afford a $300-$400 scope on that rifle. i have some decent scopes for my money on my rifles, and they are all just fine for my needs. that curiosity of what a $1500 scope looks like is what drives us to the point of obsession to get them. i think.


Edited by pyro6999 - January/04/2012 at 13:11
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