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Hunting binocular help.

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Bitterroot Bulls View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2010 at 21:24
I might just be a "cheap binocular justifier," but I will say with confidence that my Zen 10X42 ED1s are quite close to several models of top-of-the-line Euro bins.  Their resolution is remarkable, and CA control is absolutely top-shelf.
 
I have used a hunting partner's Leica CRF 1200 many times, and it absolutely optically knocks the socks off my Elite 1500 (although not in ranging capability).
 
However, I would take the Zens any day of the week over the Leica rangefinder as a glassing tool.
 
tpcollins' 7X36 ED2 unit may well have been a lemon.  Regardless, everyone has their own opinions of optical performance.
 
take a good look through your Zens and I bet you will be pleasantly surprised.  If not, SWFA will take care of you.
-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2010 at 08:32
Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

I might just be a "cheap binocular justifier," but I will say with confidence that my Zen 10X42 ED1s are quite close to several models of top-of-the-line Euro bins.  Their resolution is remarkable, and CA control is absolutely top-shelf.
 
I have used a hunting partner's Leica CRF 1200 many times, and it absolutely optically knocks the socks off my Elite 1500 (although not in ranging capability).
 
However, I would take the Zens any day of the week over the Leica rangefinder as a glassing tool.
 
tpcollins' 7X36 ED2 unit may well have been a lemon.  Regardless, everyone has their own opinions of optical performance.
 
take a good look through your Zens and I bet you will be pleasantly surprised.  If not, SWFA will take care of you.



So are the ED2's.....they have fantastic glass.  If you can't see game through an ED2 it's the glasser's fault, not the glass. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitthespot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2010 at 11:47
I've hunted all my life and I could not imagine having a pair of 8 X 42 binoculars around my neck for 8 - 10 hours, walking or horseback.    I faced the same questions as you when I upgraded my binoculars 16 years ago.   I finally purchased a pair of 8 X 30 SLC Swarovski binoculars and have never looked back.  Now I have not seen nor looked through any of the new Zens or Vortex models, however for the difference between 850.00 (Vortex Razor 8  x 42) to 1100.00-1150.00 for the Swarovski's, the choice would be simple in my mind.  I've owned Leica 10 x 50's and unless it's almost dark, the Swarovski 8 x 30 will do everything you ask of it, AND it is small and light.  A major concern when your on horseback for 10 hours.
 
my 2 cents
 
Good Luck.
 
Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2010 at 15:56
I wear a bino harness, and have never noticed the weight of my trinovids, Gold Ring HD's or any other heavier glass at all.  I don't even know they're there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2010 at 17:04
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I wear a bino harness, and have never noticed the weight of my trinovids, Gold Ring HD's or any other heavier glass at all.  I don't even know they're there.


Ditto.  My dad uses Meopta 12x50s and he never complains about them being to heavy.  I use Meopta 10x42s and never had a problem either.


Edited by supertool73 - July/07/2010 at 17:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TwistedAiredale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2010 at 22:09
I never really liked the harnesses I've tried, maybe it was the ones I used but I didn't like having to fight to hold up my binoculars.  I do like carrying them under my arm though, both walking and on horseback.  If I'm stalking, they are up front.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TwistedAiredale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 23:33
I'm not a Optics guy, a writer, or even a good speller, but I thought I'd post my notes to myself on the Binoculars I have been fooling around with this past week.

Steiner Merlin 8x42 Binoculars - cost 599.00  My old Bin's I'm upgrading from.
Zen ED2 10x43 Binoculars - cost 411.00
Vortex Razor 10x42 Binoculars - cost 769.00
Swaro SLC 10x42WB Binoculars - est. cost 1000.00 +/- borrowed for a standard in testing.  Unknown age, Serial number D6932XXXX3 if that helps. Condition is 95% some pealing of the black paint on the nameplate, glass is minty.

All ratings will have a standard of 1.00 based on the SLC's, >1 is good, <1 is bad.

Daylight, Full Sun, Evenings, Bluebird days, on 7/12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th 2010  

Times are full daylight to dark thirty and broken up so I never used the binoculars for more than a 30 minute stretch.

Weight: Steiners 23.5 oz, Zen's are 26.5 oz, Razors are 30.7 oz, and the SLC's are 33 oz.

Size: SLC's 5.75" Zens 6.75 Razors 7" and the Steiners are 5.75 (all cups down).

Focus Knobs: SLC's =1 Steiners = 1 Zen's 0.95 and Razors = 1.  

Comments, The Steiners are butter smooth and really fast, the Zen's and Razors are quite a bit slower and a bit stiff. The Zen's have awful tacky writing on the plastic focusing knob.  The Steiners have three awful tacky badges.  The Zen's have nice little rubber grips on the plastic knob where as the Steiners molded rubber covered.  The Vortex has a bright cap badge on the end but has the best focus knob of all three - it has a good grip, is a bit easier to turn than the Zen's, about the same speed as the Zen's and turns in the opposite direction than the Zen's.  The SLCs are fast and smooth with a plastic wheel.

More thoughts - the SLC are professional looking, the Zens and Razors are gaudy on the knobs and tripod caps.

Protection, Objective covers SLC, Zens and Razors 1 Steiners 2.  Ocular covers - all 1

Comments - The objective covers on the Steiners are great, they snap on and off and they fit into the barrel flush so they are difficult to knock off on branches, clothing etc.  All the Ocular covers suck and the outside strapped objective covers of the others suck.

All four fit pretty well in my hands, the thumb spots are good for me and they handle well.

Straps, SLC after market 1.1, Steiners 2, Zen's 1, Razors 1

The Steiners have a very good system, neoprene neck band and all… better than the after market butler creek strap on the SLC's

Eyecups SLC 1, Steiners 1, Razors 1.1, Zen's 1

Comments, I like the Steiner eye cups compared to the twist out eye cups of the Zen's and SLC's they block all kinds of stray light from the sides and keep my eyes from drying out.  They also help to get a faster mount.  The Zen's cups are greased inside - they may collect dirt.  They Vortex come with changeable eye cups from the Zen style to the Steiner Style - Very Cool but the changed out eye cups feel a bit loose so they loose a bit.

The Zen's and Razors are as bright in daylight as the Steiner 8x42's and SLC's.  The colors look good in all four, they all get a 1 for brightness in daylight.

Resolution: I limited myself to zero on the down side and I want to give the Steiners a -1 compared to the SLC's at a 1.  Razors 1. Zen's 1.2

Comments, I was shocked.  I used the checking cracks on a firewood log at 60 yards, the Zen's were the best at seeing the fine checks, no doubt.

Edge degradation SLC 1, Steiners 0.45, Zen's 0.93, Razors 0.90

Comments, the sweet spot on the Zen's goes close to the edge with maybe <15 percent of the distance between the center of the circle and the edge (radius) degraded.  With the Steiner's, I would say the fuzziness starts halfway between the center and the outside edge.  The Vortex, like the Zen's, shows very little degrading around the edges, perhaps maybe 1 or 2% more than the Zen's - maybe.  I'd call the SLC's at <10%.

Diopter adjustment, Steiners 0.8 (too loose) Zen's 0.95 (clicker, easy to use, should stay put), Vortex 1, SLC 1. (both lockable)

Glare, Stray Light, whatever. SLC 1, Steiners 1.05, Zen's .95, Vortex 0.95  

Comments, There is a tiny bit of stray light across the bottom of the Zen's lens.  I only noticed it once the sun was down low and looking at darker trees (Juniper) with a bright blue sky.  It cannot be seen in the Steiners at all.  You can also see it in the warehouse store as I took them in when I bought the Vortex Razors.  The Vortex Razors have the exact same light leakage, almost to a tee!!  The SLC's seem to have a bit also but it is much softer, or more defused.

Low Light, SLC's 1, Vortex 1.05 and the Zens are a tad better but still a 1.1

Comments, another surprise, the SLC's started to washout a bit before the Zen's!

Bottom line, I'll keep the Zen's. If I can get over the Chinese part I'll be fine with these for the next five years or until the balloon goes up. I'll not have to worry as much about losing a 2.5k binocular.  Maybe I'll even buy some 8x42's for a set.  Honestly, the Zeiss FL's and Swaro SV's are a huge jump in wow factor when looking at them side by side with the older SLC's, Razors, or Zen's but I'd worry to much, I can afford em, but it would give me heartburn.  All in all the glass on both the Razors and Zen's equals the SLC's I have here, I have to look really hard to see the stray light thing and the better resolution of the Zen's is just what I was looking for.  Although, I wonder how the new SLCnew's look….. :  No, I'm done.

Thank you all for your help - it is much appreciated.

 
 
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JGRaider View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 17:24
Thanks for the interesting observations.  I agree the Zen's are great.  BTW, how old are the SLC"s?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TwistedAiredale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 17:47
I found this... so that would make them 1999 models.

__________
Here's how to tell the manufacture date - the Serial Number begins with a letter, followed by nine numbers. The first two numbers are the code for the year of manufacture -
69 - 1999
70 - 2000
71 - 2001
72 - 2002
73 - 2003
74 - 2004
75 - 2005
76 - 2006, etc.

The next two numbers tell the week of that year in which they were made.

Clay Taylor
Swarovski Optik N.A.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitthespot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 19:08

I find it very intersting you find the Razors and the Zens equal to the SLC's.  I have a pair of 8 x 30 SLC's and was curious if the new mid priced binoculars had caught up with them.  Based on your post it sounds like they have optically.

My only other concern is (and it's a big one ) or at least it used to be is collimation.   This is just as important to me as the glass.   Back in the late 80's early 90's if you bought a low to mid priced binocular, in my opinion you played the collimation lottery.   Before I bought the SCL's I had two mid priced binoculars that gave me splitting headaches if I used them for long periods of time.  That changed completely with the SLC's.   I would use them all day on squirl hunts and never get so much as a twinge.    I'm sure the new mid priced binoculars are probably every bit as good as my old 1994 SLC's.  Probably everyone uses lasers now to make sure their perfect.  However, I sure would like to hear a number of people say they glass for long periods of time with them and find no eye strain what so ever.
 
Thanks for your observations, I enjoyed reading them.
 
Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2010 at 12:09
BIll,
 
I have glassed for hours on hours with my ZENs and have yet to have any noticeable eyestrain.  I think you are right that, with modern technology, collimation has become less of an issue.  I did buy a pair of 8X32 Leupy GRs that were out of collimation, but Leupold's CS remedied that one in a hurry.


Edited by Bitterroot Bulls - July/18/2010 at 19:40
-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brodeur272 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2010 at 14:51
I would look at the Pentax SP line of binos.  See my review comparing them against some Swaro, Kahles and Zen Rays in the Review section...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DAVE44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2010 at 14:52
Yes, Ive had a few new in box pair come out of collimation. Definately ruins it for you when you have to send them in first thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TwistedAiredale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2010 at 20:33
I've spent a good bit of time with these now, and the collimation is good, I'm pretty happy with them and thinking of getting another pair in 7 or 8x.  First I need to find a new rangefinder though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TwistedAiredale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2010 at 20:37
Don't forget they were older SLC's - I have no idea how they compare to the new models side by side.  I've looked at the new SV EL's side by side (in the store) with these and was impressed, but not that impressed considering the cost jump.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitthespot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2010 at 21:36
Originally posted by TwistedAiredale TwistedAiredale wrote:

Don't forget they were older SLC's - I have no idea how they compare to the new models side by side.  I've looked at the new SV EL's side by side (in the store) with these and was impressed, but not that impressed considering the cost jump.


Well that's what I have is the older SLC's.   I purchased mine in 1994.  I just had them out today.  They still impress the heck out of me.  It's hard to believe mid priced binoculars can be just as good.   When I decide to get a pair of full size (10 x 50)  I will have to look at the Zens and the Razors.  Unless the Swarovski's and Zeiss continue to come down.
 
Thanks again TwistedAiredale for your posts.  I have enjoyed reading them.
 
Bill
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