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HUMBLE PIE...Sightron you Magnificent Ba****d

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 18:03
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Well after hearing about this scope brand for the last few years and about the SII and the "Big Sky" and every word Ilya had to say and some of the others here I did it.  My finances said under $1k so in trade I bought a Sightron SIII and mounted it on...Drum roll...llllllll.....lllllll.....lllllll a .338 Lapua.

My initial impressions are this.

The scope seems to have very respectable glass,  It is no slouch compared to Zeiss or Swarovski. 

NOW the negative: the "TARGET" turrets are not at all what I expected.  I thought the Mechanics were going to be better.  I am not saying it will not be repeatable but it leaves a little to be desired. It is not very solid and seems a little squishy under my fingers at least, but I am trying to compare it to some of the scopes that cost 2-3 times as much IT DOES HAVE 1/8 MOA ADJUSTMENTS.  This fact does not scare me and will work fine I do see the point that many make including Ilya and the fans of Sightron to have a 1/4 MOA Adjustable scope as well and better suiting particular needs.

Back to quality, I am a little turned off by the finish and polished-ness of the caps and the turrets hopefully I will soon get over this by seeing them as repeatable and functional to a T or I or H or my favorite a P.B.

Anywho not bashing just in a little shock.  I will give a report from on a bench with the BOX shot and the X placed...

Pictures to follow on a better day than this dark and gloomy crap outside.

Here are a few inside...












Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - March/13/2011 at 14:57
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 18:15
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KEN FARREL FOR THE RINGS AND BASE AND YES 30MOA for the LONGGGG shots...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 18:24
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O yeah!! Humble Pie RULES!! Wink

Oh and before I forget...nice rig!  Big Grin


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 18:56
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In my experience Sightron knob have been quite repeatable.  However, up to now, a lot of the S3 knobs were a little too light for my tastes.  For 2011, Sightron has redesigned the knobs for better feel and added metric options to go with mil-based reticles (see my SHOT 2011 right-up).

As far as 1/8 MOA knobs go, in the S3 line-up they are only available on the 10-50x60 model which you have.  This configuration was originally aimed at F/T shooters who need the shallow depth of field and high magnification.

The part I do not quite understand is why you decided to match up this particular scope with a 30MOA base.  It only has 50MOA of total adjustment range.  It is great for target shooting but for reaching WAAAY out there, I would probably lean toward the 8-32x56 model that gives you 70MOA of adjustment.  In an ideal situation, 50MOA on a 338LM is enough to get you out to a mile or so, but that assumes everything sets up perfectly.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 20:23
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This is not a very detailed response... I am usually in between a zero of 350-500yrds on the .338LM.

I am weird in the fact if I zero at 350 that gives me a less than 6" at shorter distances with a almost even 200 drop at 1000yrds.  IF I know I am not going to be shooting less than 1000 than I go to the 500 or 1000...

I use a bullet very similar to the .338 270 gr. Lost River Ballistic Technologies J40 match bullet it is still easily above super sonic at 2000YRDS it can be pushed past 2900 without any issues.
Trajectory
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.872 G1 Caliber: 0.338 in
Bullet Weight: 270.0 gr


Muzzle Velocity: 2925.0 ft/s Distance to Chronograph: 20.0 ft

Sight Height: 1.50 in Sight Offset: 0.00 in
Zero Height: 0.00 in Zero Offset: 0.00 in
Windage: 0.000 MOA Elevation: 0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg

Wind Speed: 2.5 mph Wind Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Speed: 0.0 mph Target Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Height: 12.0 in


Temperature: 65.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 40.0 % Altitude: 800.0 ft

Vital Zone Radius: 5.0 in


Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing: Yes Include Extra Rows: No
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No

Output Data
Elevation: 3.410 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA

Atmospheric Density: 0.07320 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1122.9 ft/s

Maximum PBR: 375 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 316 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 172 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 3891.3 ft•lbs

Sectional Density: 0.338 lb/in²

Calculated Table
RangeDropDropWindageWindageVelocityMachEnergyTimeLeadLead
(yd)(in)(MOA)(in)(MOA)(ft/s)(none)(ft•lbs)(s)(in)(MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2932.1 2.611 5153.5 0.000 0.0 ***
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.1 0.1 2826.3 2.517 4788.3 0.104 0.0 0.0
200 -2.9 -1.4 0.3 0.2 2723.0 2.425 4444.7 0.212 0.0 0.0
300 -10.4 -3.3 0.8 0.2 2622.1 2.335 4121.3 0.325 0.0 0.0
400 -23.0 -5.5 1.4 0.3 2523.4 2.247 3816.9 0.441 0.0 0.0
500 -41.0 -7.8 2.2 0.4 2426.9 2.161 3530.5 0.562 0.0 0.0
600 -65.0 -10.3 3.3 0.5 2332.5 2.077 3261.0 0.689 0.0 0.0
700 -95.4 -13.0 4.6 0.6 2240.1 1.995 3007.9 0.820 0.0 0.0
800 -132.6 -15.8 6.1 0.7 2149.7 1.914 2770.1 0.957 0.0 0.0
900 -177.5 -18.8 7.8 0.8 2061.5 1.836 2547.4 1.099 0.0 0.0
1000 -230.4 -22.0 9.9 0.9 1975.4 1.759 2339.1 1.248 0.0 0.0
1100 -292.4 -25.4 12.2 1.1 1891.6 1.685 2144.9 1.403 0.0 0.0
1200 -364.0 -29.0 14.8 1.2 1810.2 1.612 1964.2 1.565 0.0 0.0
1300 -446.2 -32.8 17.8 1.3 1731.3 1.542 1796.7 1.735 0.0 0.0
1400 -540.1 -36.8 21.1 1.4 1655.1 1.474 1642.0 1.912 0.0 0.0
1500 -646.6 -41.2 24.8 1.6 1581.8 1.409 1499.8 2.097 0.0 0.0
1600 -767.1 -45.8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 22:17
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Very nice review... I wish you would do that more often...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 22:44
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That is a very high BC bullet.  I usually use SMKs or Scenars, but then again I seldom have an opportunity to shoot that far out

With the 10-50x60 and a 30MOA rail, you might not be able to get a 100yards zero.  Even a 500 yard zero might be cutting it too close.

Personally, I simply prefer to stay away from the very edges of adjustment range if I can.  Most good quality scopes are fine with it, but I am paranoid, so it just something I do as a matter of "good practices". 

Aside from 70 MOA of adjustment range, the 8-32x56 also has more adjustment per revolution available, so I prefer that one to 10-50x60.

From a durability standpoint, the slightly smaller 8-32x56 is easier to make robust (short and lighter objective bell), but both should work fine. 

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2011 at 15:03
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NEXT TIME I AM GOING TO ASK BEFORE I BUY.

Maybe this needs to go on a 6.5x55 and I try it again...

Especially to get the better mechanics...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2011 at 16:43
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

That is a very high BC bullet. 


WOW!  That's an understatement!

Nice review, .338!  Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2011 at 20:44
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Was asked where to get these bullets.

If you don't have a local Machine shop that can get the stock you can get them on the net at two different places.

I think Midway sells them as well.

I think these 240gr are a little over stated they do not perform up to there rating but are over .80's

http://www.lehighbullets.com/products.asp?cat=30

or

http://www.boretech.com/products/bulletsv3.shtml

click on Technical Data



These are a couple of interesting quick reads...

http://longrangeshooter.com/forums/index.php?topic=215.0

http://www.silencertests.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35102&start=50

http://sysops666.blogspot.com/2007_06_01_archive.html

The below have to be sorted out for real data and actual facts.

They are in depth about long range 1000yrd+ shooting...

A very very interesting read that is a long read but has good info is

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=674586&page=1

it references the many things affected by the higher BC.

another

http://www.snipercountry.com/roster/AllArchives/duty062002_01_04.htm


AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST...

THE VERY COVETED AND CONTROVERSIAL

LUTZ MOELLER

http://lutz-moeller-jagd.de/Ballistik/A_Ballistic_Coefficient_Discussion_with_Lost_River.htm

What happened to LRB???



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2011 at 20:49
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Oh yeah and buy the Scenar (Skinnar) Bullets if you don't want to drop the extra Dime....

I can get them since I buy them a few thousand at a time for $.62 300GR .736 BC  a little better than the $1.20 per...

Back to the scope...

SO I wanted to try a Sightron because I keep dumping my nicer rifles with my nicer scopes and I am splitting other rifles/scopes to sell either that will get the better money vs. what I have into them and still have rifles that are missing eyes...

I believe I can get a few pics posted by Thursday.  I am going out Wed. and am going to staple the camera to my hand since I have forgotten it in the rush the last few times...


Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - March/13/2011 at 20:52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2011 at 20:50
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:


O yeah!! Humble Pie RULES!! Wink

Oh and before I forget...nice rig!  Big Grin


 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2011 at 14:28
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

In an ideal situation, 50MOA on a 338LM is enough to get you out to a mile or so...

ILya
Well shucks, only a mile or so?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2011 at 15:22
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Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

In an ideal situation, 50MOA on a 338LM is enough to get you out to a mile or so...

ILya
Well shucks, only a mile or so?


Tragic, isn't it?

On a more important note, the emphasis should be on the word "ideal", as in "unlikely to happen".

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2011 at 17:35
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Ok, so another 50+ down the tube today,  I do have an issue with this scope, It needs a built in hand warmer, some way they should be able to put in a heat-sink and use the barrels heat and have it warm the Turrets, man oh man oh man was it cold.

In all seriousness. I have now put "my faith" in this brand.

I am not saying I am throwing out my other scopes just yet but I have a feeling I am going to be purchasing a few in the very near future.

Out and down and back and out through every available MOA / elevation click that I felt comfortable with with using hold over I am very happy about this purchase.

To ALL if you are worried about Sightron, you shouldn't be, while this model does not have the newer designed turrets It has thus served me WELL... THANK YOU SIGHTRON!!!!!!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2011 at 19:09
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

Ok, so another 50+ down the tube today,  I do have an issue with this scope, It needs a built in hand warmer, some way they should be able to put in a heat-sink and use the barrels heat and have it warm the Turrets, man oh man oh man was it cold.

In all seriousness. I have now put "my faith" in this brand.

I am not saying I am throwing out my other scopes just yet but I have a feeling I am going to be purchasing a few in the very near future.

Out and down and back and out through every available MOA / elevation click that I felt comfortable with with using hold over I am very happy about this purchase.

To ALL if you are worried about Sightron, you shouldn't be, while this model does not have the newer designed turrets It has thus served me WELL... THANK YOU SIGHTRON!!!!!!!!

As I've been saying, for the money, Sightron S3 scopes offer quite a bit.  You should try one with the new knobs (basically, I am out of time, so I want someone else to test one firstBig Smile).

ILya
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Can you give me the exact model number so I am positive I get one with new knobs on it???

I thank you in advance.

Working a I am guessing 9-5 (probably more like 7:30-6:30) and still allowing yourself to help SWFA out and the OPTICS TALK forum members out, I hope you never get to burnt out and continue this hobby and service to the community.

I am not trying to get all mushy but you have helped more people out (while not homeless or hungry) we have been able to put the extra dollars to good use, at least I know of a few that have.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 21:30
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

Can you give me the exact model number so I am positive I get one with new knobs on it???I thank you in advance.Working a I am guessing 9-5 (probably more like 7:30-6:30) and still allowing yourself to help SWFA out and the OPTICS TALK forum members out, I hope you never get to burnt out and continue this hobby and service to the community.I am not trying to get all mushy but you have helped more people out (while not homeless or hungry) we have been able to put the extra dollars to good use, at least I know of a few that have.


Which reticle and knobs do you want?

MOA/MOA or mil/mil?
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MIL MIL WORKS FOR ME.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2011 at 15:23
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

Can you give me the exact model number so I am positive I get one with new knobs on it???

I thank you in advance.

Working a I am guessing 9-5 (probably more like 7:30-6:30) and still allowing yourself to help SWFA out and the OPTICS TALK forum members out, I hope you never get to burnt out and continue this hobby and service to the community.

I am not trying to get all mushy but you have helped more people out (while not homeless or hungry) we have been able to put the extra dollars to good use, at least I know of a few that have.

I would look at these (depending on the usage you can pick different magnification ranges).  All of these are SFP scopes.  Some may not be available to purchase just yet, but all are coming shortly (if not here already):

To me, the 6-24x50 is the best choice for a mid-to-long range rig.  I like the magnification range and the scope itself is not overly heavy or long for the configuration and it has about 28mrad of adjustment available.  This is a nice scope for a bolt gun with a 300WM, for example, that you want to be fairly mobile.  While there are, of course, other scopes that fit it well, this is likely the best SFP option under ~$1k, currently on the market.

The 3.5-10x44 is a DMR scope.  10x is enough to reach WAAAY out there, but with 3.5x low end and 33mrad of adjustment, it is a nice fit to the AR-15 platform among others.  It is not a whole lot lighter than the 6-24x50, but is a little more compact.

8-32x56 is I think a nice match for 338LM and other cartridges intended for shooting really far away.  It has about 20mrad of adjustment range.  Most importantly, this is just about the only variable scope under ~$1k that is truly usable at 32x.

10-50x60, to me is a nice target scope designed for a rifle you are not going to lug around a whole lot.  Adjustment range is a bit limited, although serviceable, but it has finer clicks that the others here.  It is a nice F/T scope for airgunners (it focuses down to 40 feet).  Magnification this high is seldom truly usable for long range shooting.  It is simply too much.  However, it is important for those who use the side-focus knob for range finding: ultra high magnification gives razor-thin depth of field, so an airgunner or rimfire shooter can calibrate the side-focus knob to determine the range.

Lastly, I expect the S3 line to grow by a couple more configurations within the next year or two.  Once is the 1-7x24 that I already wrote about in my SHOT show report.  Another, is a different configuration that has not been announced yet, but that peaked my interest.

I hope this helps.

ILya


Edited by koshkin - March/27/2011 at 15:24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2011 at 16:34
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I am truly looking for a paper punching scope that can give me a large range of Elevation that is repeatable.

I know this sounds odd but think of Mr. Bishop he is putting in the higher dollar in his scopes/bases and reticles which I can no longer do. I am jealous to no end with his rigs while I despise pistol shooting he really is doing a different pistol shooting than I have ever witnessed.

I am wanting to shoot at paper or "hardened steel" at ranges exceeding 1 mile possibility of 1.5miles + it can be done with accuracy and is fun...

I am trying to get an $800-1,000 Scope a $100 base (20 MOA OR 30 MOA) system and $100 rings. to do this with a holdover I can still see the target and impact with.

(WOULD LOVE TO GET MY HANDS ON A 0-70MOA ADJUSTABLE BASE FROM A MAJOR MANUFACTURE not yet in production but in trial) Sorry side note just had to get that out of my system.

The 10X does work and is effective.  I am wanting to "hone" in a little if you will and get a more detailed picture.  I want to see the shot and see the impact and see the variables better I do not want to have to be the spotter or even need a spotter.

I am past that point.

I now want a higher magnification just because.

I now want a "Dialed in" shot to which I do not need a more than outrageous hold over.  I do not want to have to spend $300-750 on a 0- outlandish MOA 100-600 or something insane.

I shoot subsonic (suppressed) .308 FP 150GR Berry's 30/30 Flat Points and 200GR B416 Lapua Bullets out to 500YRDS with clay pigeon accuracy it takes me a few in strong winds.  I am zeroed at 100YRDS.

I am holding over the hill to a particular tree branch I have used a tree branch or section of branches crossing or if you can imagine in your scope the crazy reticles they make now so to speak either on the imaginary or reticle CHRIStmas tree everyone hates or the R-1000.

It is not impossible I promise you, The flight time is long and the by the time you hear the impact you have already booked it.

At 500YRDS you can make out the impact with your scope and setup.  This is not possible at 3 times the distance.

It is about the same Issue at 1500YRDS the hold over is so significant that You can hardly make out your target and impact without the higher magnification. Or a spotter at your side or a Radio and another group of shooters/spotters.

I am just trying to see if a $1000-1250 scope and setup can get me there.

The days of the higher dollar optics and bases are over with it is family time...

And I know some make the argument of the 98 or the 91/30 or the Swedes did it with 3x - 6x fixed power power.  I do like to shoot them, say out to 500-700rds but after that the dust flying just isn't enough steel hitting is still fun but they kick and I do not reload the 7.62x54r or the 8mm the ammo just isn't accurate enough for me (that is my excuse for off hand shooting at that distance.  Probably some of the funnest shooting I have ever done was targeting Rocks and Milk Jugs at 500 with the 91/30 and the 48 and 98. 

Back on topic.

So the choice for the scope came down to these because I believe the GLASS is decent and the magnification range allows me to see more (less FOV) but more details even though mirage is blinding at the higher power this will be done in early or cold consistent or warm consistent days.

Who knows maybe I am already talking myself out of this but again I am just trying to get creative and enjoy different types of the same old puzzle of shooting.

I have always argued the .22lr is fun at 300+ in the same ways but the Longer higher power stuff is more stress relief somehow.

So I am taking in the above scopes.

I provided this publicly in hopes it helps others as well.  Thank you ILya.



Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - March/27/2011 at 17:30
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I have had good luck with the S-3 Sightron 6-24.
It has been on several guns and one 375 Chey-Tac rifle.
Very impressed with this scope.
Wished mine was the MOA/MOA versionExcellent
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Getting ready to pull the trigger.

In fact I called SWFA today to order (the sightron SIII 6-24 mil mil) and am now a little hesitant.

They threw me a curveball.

VORTEX, the PST version not the razor (because I cannot justify it or afford it) but the PST.

I am wondering what I give up or what I gain vs the Sightron, I was pretty happy with the last Sightron purchase BUT it was a little mushy (which ILya assures me will not be an issue with the new MIL MIL versions> I am looking at the 6-24 vs. of the PST and the Sightron SIII and wondered what the differences are and how the glass compares.

Also the lack of adjustment on the Viper scares me a little.  I always want as many as I can get...

Is the glass better on either model?

What else am I missing?


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2011 at 18:35
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Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Offline
Points: 2455
PST 6-24 COMING WHENEVER THEY GET THEM SHIPPED IN SOME QUANTITY, I AM 23RD IN LINE WITH SWFA...

SIGHTRON 6-24 MRAD DUE AT MY DOOR THURSDAY AM VERY EXCITED.
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Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Offline
Points: 2455














ALL MY WORRIES HAVE ENDED.

I HAVE FINALLY GOT THE NEWER TURRETS...

They could not have improved them anymore, all the slop is gone, I am going to say they are even better than the S&B's / Hensoldt/Zeiss / Kahles...

They actually have more than a click feel as they seem to be a little springy and locked at the same time, I have WRENCHED on them and tried to ground them down as best as I could and nothing still as solid and as positive feel as the first time I took it around the horn.

I have a hard time putting it into words, They are not sticky or "pushy" like the SS's, they are not as loose and clingy as the MARK IV, they are not as "clickety" as the PMII, they are not as silent feeling or silky feeling as the Kahles, it is just hard to describe...They are very well tensioned and very very solid feel not a little bit of movement you don't want just CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, not like the TIC of a clock but very short and sweet.

ILya can you put into Engineering terms or more appropriate terms as to why the Sightron's feel so good now as apposed to them being a little mushy before.

High power is the True Measurement for Mils...24x





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