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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 18:08
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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So, in Mississippi there is a "Primitive Weapon" season that begins 2 weeks prior to open deer season (so the deer are still confident from the lack of hunting through the summer and fall.)

Last year, I missed a beautiful buck because i borrowed a rifle with a Tasco Silver Antler scope - and to say it sucked would be an understatement of biblical proportions.

For this year, I have decided to not again go into battle with an unproven weapon (something I didn't want to do previously but was talked into it by my West Point grad friend - probably so he could eternally give me hell for whiffing on a beautiful buck) and am buying a handi rifle in 45/70 and need to top it with an optic.

Now, the question and reason for the post:  I know a bit about tactical scopes and own several hunting scopes; however, the optic needed here is quite specialized.  As the bullet from a 45/70 goes down like a pro queen, I need something either with not much magnification (to remind me not to take the 200 yard shot) or I need somthing with a BDC reticule.

Most of my experience is in good German glass but I can't justify a $1,000 scope on a $200 rifle - but maybe you can help in that regard too.

So, the question: what is the best option for a 45/70 handi rifle at short range

1.  4x32 IOR
2.  1.8-5.5 Conquest
3.  3-9 Conquest with Z600
4.  1.25-4 or 3-9 Trijicon Accupoint
5.  2-7 Kahles with TDS
6.  2.5-10 4200
7.  1.5-6 Meoptra
8.  3-10 Swaro (little more than I want to pay)
9.  6X S&B (little more than I want to pay)
10.  Wildcard - something I hve not yet considered.

I didn't make it a "cast your vote" because I want reasons, not some easy way out with no rationale.


As I said, max shot will be probably 125 yards.  Scope will be backed up by Leica 10X binos to identify.

Keep in mind, the rifle is small, light, short, and will not be called upon to make a 1,000 shot on prairie dog-sized game.  This is a Primitive Weapon season gun, nothing else.


Suggestions and reasons.  My deer guns and hog guns are set up and good to go, I need a rifle that lets me kill bucks when most hunters are still at home planning.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 18:56
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Guess I'll have to go wild card since I have no experience with those you listed.

I have a 1.5x6 Burris Signature with the ballistic plex reticle on my pro hunter muzzle loader, which I use for our primitive season, low power for maximum light transmission and the ballistic plex reticle for accurate hold over points out to 200 yards.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 19:13
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R.C.
    I'll add 2...number 10s! One is a Leupold European 30mm 1.25-4x20 with German #4 reticle, the 2nd the Leu Euro 2-7x33, with same reticle. Both have more than adequate, and better than many u mentioned, eye relief (trust me you will need that). Both can be used with both eyes open at lowest settings aand close quarters, and both can be had...for under 4 bills. Read some reviews.     
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 19:30
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no2 and a close 2nd no4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 19:44
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A No.2 ..or a No.4 or a 4200 1.5-6  ( or one of the new 4200 ELITES  1.25-4x24mm  )

Edited by martin3175 - March/01/2008 at 07:30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 19:45
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If ya gotta scope a bowling ball...
 
The 2-3/4 fixed Leu
The IOR 4x
1-4 Aimpoint
 
What they won't let you use a Marlin?
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 22:30
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

So, in Mississippi there is a "Primitive Weapon" season that begins 2 weeks prior to open deer season (so the deer are still confident from the lack of hunting through the summer and fall.)

Last year, I missed a beautiful buck because i borrowed a rifle with a Tasco Silver Antler scope - and to say it sucked would be an understatement of biblical proportions.

For this year, I have decided to not again go into battle with an unproven weapon (something I didn't want to do previously but was talked into it by my West Point grad friend - probably so he could eternally give me hell for whiffing on a beautiful buck) and am buying a handi rifle in 45/70 and need to top it with an optic.

Now, the question and reason for the post:  I know a bit about tactical scopes and own several hunting scopes; however, the optic needed here is quite specialized.  As the bullet from a 45/70 goes down like a pro queen, I need something either with not much magnification (to remind me not to take the 200 yard shot) or I need somthing with a BDC reticule.

Most of my experience is in good German glass but I can't justify a $1,000 scope on a $200 rifle - but maybe you can help in that regard too.

So, the question: what is the best option for a 45/70 handi rifle at short range

1.  4x32 IOR
2.  1.8-5.5 Conquest
3.  3-9 Conquest with Z600
4.  1.25-4 or 3-9 Trijicon Accupoint
5.  2-7 Kahles with TDS
6.  2.5-10 4200
7.  1.5-6 Meoptra
8.  3-10 Swaro (little more than I want to pay)
9.  6X S&B (little more than I want to pay)
10.  Wildcard - something I hve not yet considered.

I didn't make it a "cast your vote" because I want reasons, not some easy way out with no rationale.


As I said, max shot will be probably 125 yards.  Scope will be backed up by Leica 10X binos to identify.

Keep in mind, the rifle is small, light, short, and will not be called upon to make a 1,000 shot on prairie dog-sized game.  This is a Primitive Weapon season gun, nothing else.


Suggestions and reasons.  My deer guns and hog guns are set up and good to go, I need a rifle that lets me kill bucks when most hunters are still at home planning.
Rancid..........................None of the above!! I like a wildcard here!! An underdog more than likely??!!!.............IMO, all of the above scopes are overpowered for the shooting ranges you state (max. 125 yards) and for that cartridge. Some more than others, but nevertheless, all are overpowered! That 45-70 is a handy, short range, timber and brush rifle; scope it as such!.............IMO, you should have a very fast, on target both eyes open aiming on the low end, while having enough magnification for a shot out to 200 yards if necessary on the high end. Along with fast, both eyes open target acquisition, you should have a scope with a great FOV!!.... KISS!! Forget any BDC reticle by knowing your trajectory................This scope has 94% light trans., has fully-multicoated optics, is durable and is used on 375`s, 416`s, and 458`s.  Almost all the reviews by owners from another site (M****y) give 5 stars!! Many reviewers have stated this scope is very comparable to their more expensive Leupys, Burris`and Nikons, not only in low light but for overall brightness and clarity as well! It`s less expensive too!....................For your use, my pick is the Weaver Classic V3 1x3 for about $150!!!!.......A WEAVER??... YEP! A Weaver!! The underdog to all of the above AND better for THAT rifle under your hunting conditions!................BTW! Any rumors that you might have heard about Meade going down the tubes??... NOPE!!!.......Meade`s headquarters is 20 miles from me in Irvine Ca. They just renewed a new 5 year building lease from the Irvine Company....They will honor all lifetime warranties on any Weaver scope! After the takover, Meade changed nothing in the Weaver scopes. Same materials and the same great Jap glass. The V3 is a smaller version of the Grand Slam and is much better looking!................Read those reviews!....Yep! I like the underdog here! And, I`ll bet that little Weaver will do anything the others will, given the same conditions!................    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 04:55
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Number 2 or Number 4 is my pick for your setup......
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 07:18
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I like the 4x IOR you are considering. A simple and rugged scope for a simple and rugged gun........perfect. It has plenty of eye relief at 3.5" and our own ILya Koshkin says the glass is excellent. I still use some high quality 4x scopes for your type of hunting. I think a 4x works great.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 07:20
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Like Biggie's choice.  Have also has really good experience with Bushnell Trophy 1.75x5.  Have one on 44 carbine & Marlin 35 Rem.  Good scopes for the money - both eyes open at low power on running game.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 07:26
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What state lets you use a 45-70 as a primitive weapon?  Everywhere I've ever been that means bow or muzzle loader, not even a BPCR is legal.  I'll never buy another low power variable; can't stand looking at the barrel through the scope.  I'd get a 2 3/4 or 4X fixed, or a 3-9X40.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 07:56
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I would put either an aimpoint with the 2moa red dot or the Trijicon accupoint 1.25-4. Both of which would be awesome.  I really like the 45-70 cartridge and suspect that if you sighted it in with the zero at 150 to 165 yds you would be quite deadly out to 200 yds and still in a kill zone at closer ranges.
Horniday      
Ammo
45-70 GOVT 325 GR FTX LEVERevolution
45-70 GOVT 325 gr FTX LEVERevolution
82747
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2050/3032 1729/2158 1450/1516 1225/1083
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 3.0 -4.1 -27.8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 08:02
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11419 Aimpoint%209000L%2030mm%20Red%20Dot%20Sight%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Aimpoint 9000L 30mm Red Dot Sight
  • Matte
  • 2 MOA Dot
  • 30mm
  • Free Aimpoint Bikini Lens Cover w/ Purchase
SWFA: $359.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
mounts with two 30mm scope rings on a weaver type base that comes on that rifle.
213M2 Warne%20Maxima%20Permanent%20Attach%2030mm%20Rings%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Warne Maxima Permanent Attach 30mm Rings
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  • Low
SWFA: $32.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 08:17
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Lucky they are in Mississsippi

PRIMITIVE WEAPONS
"Primitive firearms" for the purpose of hunting deer, are defined as single or double barreled muzzle-loading rifles of at least .38 caliber; single shot, breech loading, cartridge rifles (.38 caliber or larger) of a kind and type manufactured prior to 1900, and replicas, reproductions or reintroductions of those type rifles; and single or double-barreled muzzle-loading shotguns with single ball or slug. All muzzle-loading Primitive Firearms must use black powder or a black powder substitute with either percussion caps or #209 shotgun primers or flintlock ignition. Breech loading single shot rifles must have exposed hammers and use metallic cartridges. Cartridges may be loaded either with black powder or modern smokeless powder. Scopes of any magnification are allowed on primitive weapons. Sidearms are not allowed during primitive weapon season.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 11:09
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

So, in Mississippi there is a "Primitive Weapon" season that begins 2 weeks prior to open deer season (so the deer are still confident from the lack of hunting through the summer and fall.)

Last year, I missed a beautiful buck because i borrowed a rifle with a Tasco Silver Antler scope - and to say it sucked would be an understatement of biblical proportions.

For this year, I have decided to not again go into battle with an unproven weapon (something I didn't want to do previously but was talked into it by my West Point grad friend - probably so he could eternally give me hell for whiffing on a beautiful buck) and am buying a handi rifle in 45/70 and need to top it with an optic.

Now, the question and reason for the post:  I know a bit about tactical scopes and own several hunting scopes; however, the optic needed here is quite specialized.  As the bullet from a 45/70 goes down like a pro queen, I need something either with not much magnification (to remind me not to take the 200 yard shot) or I need somthing with a BDC reticule.

Most of my experience is in good German glass but I can't justify a $1,000 scope on a $200 rifle - but maybe you can help in that regard too.

So, the question: what is the best option for a 45/70 handi rifle at short range

1.  4x32 IOR
2.  1.8-5.5 Conquest
3.  3-9 Conquest with Z600
4.  1.25-4 or 3-9 Trijicon Accupoint
5.  2-7 Kahles with TDS
6.  2.5-10 4200
7.  1.5-6 Meoptra
8.  3-10 Swaro (little more than I want to pay)
9.  6X S&B (little more than I want to pay)
10.  Wildcard - something I hve not yet considered.

I didn't make it a "cast your vote" because I want reasons, not some easy way out with no rationale.


As I said, max shot will be probably 125 yards.  Scope will be backed up by Leica 10X binos to identify.

Keep in mind, the rifle is small, light, short, and will not be called upon to make a 1,000 shot on prairie dog-sized game.  This is a Primitive Weapon season gun, nothing else.


Suggestions and reasons.  My deer guns and hog guns are set up and good to go, I need a rifle that lets me kill bucks when most hunters are still at home planning.
Rancid..........................None of the above!! I like a wildcard here!! An underdog more than likely??!!!.............IMO, all of the above scopes are overpowered for the shooting ranges you state (max. 125 yards) and for that cartridge. Some more than others, but nevertheless, all are overpowered! That 45-70 is a handy, short range, timber and brush rifle; scope it as such!.............IMO, you should have a very fast, on target both eyes open aiming on the low end, while having enough magnification for a shot out to 200 yards if necessary on the high end. Along with fast, both eyes open target acquisition, you should have a scope with a great FOV!!.... KISS!! Forget any BDC reticle by knowing your trajectory................This scope has 94% light trans., has fully-multicoated optics, is durable and is used on 375`s, 416`s, and 458`s.  Almost all the reviews by owners from another site (M****y) give 5 stars!! Many reviewers have stated this scope is very comparable to their more expensive Leupys, Burris`and Nikons, not only in low light but for overall brightness and clarity as well! It`s less expensive too!....................For your use, my pick is the Weaver Classic V3 1x3 for about $150!!!!.......A WEAVER??... YEP! A Weaver!! The underdog to all of the above AND better for THAT rifle under your hunting conditions!................BTW! Any rumors that you might have heard about Meade going down the tubes??... NOPE!!!.......Meade`s headquarters is 20 miles from me in Irvine Ca. They just renewed a new 5 year building lease from the Irvine Company....They will honor all lifetime warranties on any Weaver scope! After the takover, Meade changed nothing in the Weaver scopes. Same materials and the same great Jap glass. The V3 is a smaller version of the Grand Slam and is much better looking!................Read those reviews!....Yep! I like the underdog here! And, I`ll bet that little Weaver will do anything the others will, given the same conditions!................    
..............................Forgot to add that the eye relief listed for the Weaver V3 shows 3.12"....That is wrong!....Its actual eye relief is 4" on the 1x and 3.5" on the 3x....That info came from an actual test measurement!
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That "primitive" weapons season in Miss is a joke! Hopefully somebody will wise up there and realize that there's nothing primitive about a 45-70 with a scope on it, even if it is a single shot with a hammer.  If I was a bowhunter or muzzle loader there I would be ticked.

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in mn you cant use a muzzleloader with a scope unless its used during the regular fire arms season, open sights only nothing with magnification is allowed
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 17:51
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Actually, they recently made the changes to the law so that the handi rifle with scope would be covered.  Guess what the best selling rifle in the state of Mississippi now is?  That's right, H&R handi rifle.  If they change the law, many many from that state will be supremely pissed.

And, FYI, I went with the 4x IOR.  If Koshkin complements the glass, I'll take it.

The 1x just isn't ideal on a variable means differences in view that must be taken into account. I like the fixed 4X, always the same look, no chance of shift during power change.

IOR makes a good scope, and I've already started praying that this thing never needs service or repair.

Thanx for the advice and words of wisdom.  I'll post pics when i have the scope and gun.
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  Rancid, I'm from Ms. and I'll have to say there aren't many hunters mad about the law. It has been that way for the last 3 years. That said, the 45-70 is one bad mama. Use the Hornady 325 gr. leverevolution ammo and you are good easily to 200 yards. I have an old 3-9x50 varixII on my Handy Rifle and I love it. This ain't primitive its effective. I didn't make the law but I am glad someone did! The big objective helps in low light and I feel more comfortable with 9 power for the longer shots that my rig is capable of.
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Actually, they recently made the changes to the law so that the handi rifle with scope would be covered.  Guess what the best selling rifle in the state of Mississippi now is?  That's right, H&R handi rifle.  If they change the law, many many from that state will be supremely pissed.

And, FYI, I went with the 4x IOR.  If Koshkin complements the glass, I'll take it.

The 1x just isn't ideal on a variable means differences in view that must be taken into account. I like the fixed 4X, always the same look, no chance of shift during power change.

IOR makes a good scope, and I've already started praying that this thing never needs service or repair.

Thanx for the advice and words of wisdom.  I'll post pics when i have the scope and gun.


Good choice.

As for IOR's customer service, if you ever need to use it, I think you'll be fine.  It has come a long way in the last few years. 

Out of the good quality 4x scopes out there, IOR 4x32 is one of the better ones, especially for the money.  There just aren't  that many high quality 4x scopes out there, and the german ones cost a lot more than the IOR without being substantially better.

A couple of things to keep in mind.  IOR's 4x32 has a steel tube.  The scope is very rugged and has proven quite durable in my experience.  If you manage to scratch the finish off (the enamel finish is pretty rugged), it can rust, so a little oil or a dab of cold blue can be helpful.

If you expect the rifle/rings/scope combination to go through any serious temperature fluctuations (I am not sure where you hunt), it may be worth your while to put it into steel rings and bases.  There is a school of thought that claims that the difference between thermal expansion coefficients of aluminum and steel can cause undue stress on the scope and mounts if you go through temperature extremes. 

I once did the calculation, and personally, I think that for any normal conditions the difference in thermal expansion is unlikely to effect the scope in any way or shape or form, but since you are buying a scope with a steel tube anyway, perhaps it is worth your while to get rings and bases made of steel.

ILya
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I have problems with thermal extremes long before the scope will.  I will be hunting in Mississippi in late Nov and early January - so temps in the 20s will be the worst.


Thanx for the advice, I look forward to the scope and will let you know how it goes.
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The 45-70 is FINE to 200+ yards.  I experimented this year-
Sight in dead on at 100
With a 3x9 scope, on 9x the bottom plex is dead on at 200
At 300 yards, scope on 9x, hold the bottom post of the plex dead on the top of a (average size) deers back and the bullet drops in the vitals.

Helped me drop a doe at 295ish this year from prone. Yippee

If you handload, I used 56.1 grains H4198 under a 300 grain Remington HP, cheap and accurate for me.

If I were you and I didn't expect mostly CLOSE shots, I would go with a 3-9x that could take the recoil.  And make sure you have you rangefinder, it drops like a rock!

Yippee
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Sounds to me all you need on that rifle is a Nikon 2-7x 32 mm Pro-Staff. Don't let the $129.00 price tag scare you, it's a great scope.
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Dammit, IOR 4X on backorder, back to square freak'in 1!
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Scope for 45-70 Marlin hound Rifle Scopes 17
Thompson scope for 45-70 orchemo Shotgun / BlackPowder Scopes 6 5/3/2005 7:50:27 PM
Scope or Reddot for T/C Encore 45-70 handcannon Handgun Scopes 5 2/23/2006 12:31:12 PM


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