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How would you rate these?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2013 at 17:22
stilhuntin View Drop Down
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Can't make up my mind. How would you rate the following for deer hunting 200-300 yards in low light (30 minutes past sun down)? The more research I do the less I see a clear winner!
All are in the same price range and 30 mm or 1 inch doesn't matter to me. I will be hunting from a stand most of the time. I know the Leica has a smaller objective lens, but I have heard many good things about them and the others as well.

Zeiss 3-12x56 Victory Diavari 30mm
Kahles-3-12x56-Helia-C-30mm
Kahles-3.5-10x50-Helia-KXi. Don't know much about an illuminated scope. Never had one.
Leica-2.5-10x42-ER-30mm

Hope you guys don't mind all the questions and posts, but this the most knowledgable and friendly group I have seen.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2013 at 18:12
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  Questions and posts don't cost a thing so ask away.
 
  Most knowledgable and friendly group?  Yep.  Takes patience of Job sometimes but it worth it.  Big Grin
 
  SORRY I can't help with your scope inquiries but you'll get the help your looking for I'm sure.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2013 at 18:52
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I would rate ALL them below a Schmidt & Bender Zenith 2.5-10x56
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2013 at 23:37
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I would rate all of these scopes as essentially even in optical performance and reliability for my personal experience with these makes and models of scopes.  In terms of brightness, the scope with 56 mm objective lenses, should yield the brightest fields in low light just because of their objective lens sizes.  This based on all of thee scopes being pretty equal in performance in low light, reputation and cost.

Edited by Oldtrader3 - May/05/2013 at 23:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 01:45
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From this scopes listed I would choose either Helia C 3-12x56 or Victory 3-12x56. Both are optically  great scopes and you will not go wrong with either one of them. 



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 04:30
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Of the scopes listed the Zeiss Victory Diavari 3-12x56 is the clear winner.
Kahles make good sopes, but take a back seat to the high end Zeiss in this case.

The Leica 2,5-6x42 is a dark horse with very good optics, but as a low light scope it will be a tiny bit handicapped by the x42 objective lens.
 
I use the big Zeiss 3-12 x56 for low light and night hunting, and where I live it is regarded as the top of the line anything else is compared against.
Another thing to concider is the reticle.
If you are young and have good eye sight, almost anything will do, but there is no accident that European low light/ night hunters prefere the #4 and #1 reticle.
The #4 A as in the Leica might be a bith to "thin" and open for low light use, but still work fine for most guys.
So my pick will without a doubt be the Zeiss Victory.
 
By the way, this is my "low light" deer and pig rifle.
A Ruger M77 in 35 Whelen with the Zeiss Victory 3-12x56 and illuminated #40 reticle.
Loaded with 250 gr Woodleigh it is a deadly combination Wink
 
 
 


Edited by seawolf - May/06/2013 at 05:06
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 06:57
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Originally posted by stilhuntin stilhuntin wrote:

Can't make up my mind. How would you rate the following for deer hunting 200-300 yards in low light (30 minutes past sun down)? The more research I do the less I see a clear winner!
All are in the same price range and 30 mm or 1 inch doesn't matter to me. I will be hunting from a stand most of the time. I know the Leica has a smaller objective lens, but I have heard many good things about them and the others as well.

Zeiss 3-12x56 Victory Diavari 30mm
Kahles-3-12x56-Helia-C-30mm
Kahles-3.5-10x50-Helia-KXi. Don't know much about an illuminated scope. Never had one.
Leica-2.5-10x42-ER-30mm

Hope you guys don't mind all the questions and posts, but this the most knowledgable and friendly group I have seen.
 
How would i rate these ? ans Tops. How could you go wrong with any of these?
        Seawolf thats a real nice hunting rig Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 07:33
stickbow46 View Drop Down
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To stir the pot a little,have you taken a look at the Premier Heritage illum hunter?Side by side it beat out my S&B Zenith,my Leica but not my Hensoldt that was too close to call.I'm only talking about glass resolution in this situation.Also have you taken a look at the Zeiss Victory HT,I haven't had a chance to look at one yet but I hear fantastic things about that scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 07:49
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Originally posted by seawolf seawolf wrote:

Of the scopes listed the Zeiss Victory Diavari 3-12x56 is the clear winner.
Kahles make good sopes, but take a back seat to the high end Zeiss in this case.

The Leica 2,5-6x42 is a dark horse with very good optics, but as a low light scope it will be a tiny bit handicapped by the x42 objective lens.
 
I use the big Zeiss 3-12 x56 for low light and night hunting, and where I live it is regarded as the top of the line anything else is compared against.
Another thing to concider is the reticle.
If you are young and have good eye sight, almost anything will do, but there is no accident that European low light/ night hunters prefere the #4 and #1 reticle.
The #4 A as in the Leica might be a bith to "thin" and open for low light use, but still work fine for most guys.
So my pick will without a doubt be the Zeiss Victory.
 
By the way, this is my "low light" deer and pig rifle.
A Ruger M77 in 35 Whelen with the Zeiss Victory 3-12x56 and illuminated #40 reticle.
Loaded with 250 gr Woodleigh it is a deadly combination Wink
 
 
 


+1 on the thoughts of the fine gentleman from Norway. It's fine to render and opinion, but actual field usage says it all.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 08:49
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Thank you bugs...you made this old man blush.....Embarrased
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 10:20
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Kahles are awesome ! I think my 3-12x56 was every bit as good as my buddy's Diavari 3-12x56 in low light.....with the exception of the reticle. The Diavari #4 is a very bold reticle. I don't like it for target shooting, to be honest I don't like it any time but at dark. In pitch black dark there is no doubt that the Zeiss #4 is about as good of a non illuminated reticle as your going to find. I had a 4a on my Kahles and it was tough to see after dark.

Looks like Leica is coming out with a 3-12x50 illuminated reticle.Might want to throw that in the mix.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 11:16
stickbow46 View Drop Down
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Leica has had illum scopes[called Magnus] out in Europe for quite some time but were not allowed to bring them into the USA.I beleive the reason was an ongoing court battle with Swaro about the illumination similarities .I realy hope this case has been settled,I think their glass is in the top 5 & I would love a 4A illum.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 12:44
cbm View Drop Down
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Yeh, their website has two models of a scope called ERi and the illumination is on the side now like a Zeiss instead of how they were originally done like a Swarovski.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 14:27
stickbow46 View Drop Down
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CBM, have you heard any info on a  release date & price ?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 14:48
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No I just happened to look at their website this morning ! I was hoping to scroll down and see a 2-12x44 or something ......but the 3-12x50 has my interest up !
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 17:40
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Got a return call from them,I was told they have no info on the new scopes as to the delivery time but the prices will be $1650-$2350 sugessted price.
 
Sorry for hi-jacking the original subject.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 18:31
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I saw the new Leica ERi illuminated scopes this weekend at the NRA show in Houston, and I thought they were VERY impressive. Illumination is an amber-orange color. I liked the illumination control very much. Other than the addition of illumination and the associated control knob on the saddle opposite the windage turret, they're exactly the same as the non-illuminated Leica ER, which is to say outstanding!

It's hard to argue against any of the scopes in the OP's list, and I like each for different reasons. If low light performance is the highest priority, the 56mm Zeiss wins out. But, for an all-around hunting scope, I like the Leica ER just a touch better. It has equivalent resolution to the Zeiss, but to my eye, its image has a bit higher contrast and more vibrant colors, and it seems to control flare better. Plus, I don't personally like huge objective bells. My own self-imposed max objective size is 50mm, which also gives you more than adequate low light performance on a high end scope.

I might have a different opinion if I lived somewhere that allowed big game hunting at night, but I do hog hunt at night, which is legal where I live. I've found if I have sufficient moonlight to see my target through my better scopes, I haven't seen a significant enough difference between my Zeiss Victory 2.5-10X50 and my buddy's Zeiss Victory 3-12X56 to warrant the tradeoff in scope bulk for me.

You will never make a bad choice between the brands mentioned. It's like choosing between a Ferrari and a Lamborghini.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 23:09
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Thanks for the updated info RD Ted.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2013 at 19:27
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Thanks for all the comments and I had not researched the new Leica illuminated scopes, but they look awesome. The 4A reticle would be just about perfect. The scope will go on a new rifle and the Leica in 42mm or 50mm would seem like a great fit. A big plus is the great optics and no one I hunt with has a Leica. I think 56mm may be too large for the rifle. Now to wait for them to come to SWFA.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2013 at 20:38
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[QUOTE=stilhuntin]

Zeiss 3-12x56 Victory Diavari 30mm   1
Kahles-3-12x56-Helia-C-30mm           2
Kahles-3.5-10x50-Helia-KXi. Don't know much about an illuminated scope. Never had one.
Leica-2.5-10x42-ER-30mm

 QUOTE]
Until you factor in illumination the 56mm objectve is the one feature that makes those two brightest in  low light.  The problem then becomes is a 56mm objective larger than desirable does it make it too big and clunky? The Kahles 3.5-10x50 KXi actually might be the best choice primarily due to its illuminated reticle and the fact that 50 mm is a lot less bulky than 56mm but the down side is that you also loose somethin on power range not just on the high end but also on the low end.  Note with  56mm objective anything 8x or lower will be bright as it gets and with 50 mm anything 7x or lower will be bright as it gets. It is more of a tragedy to step up from 3x on the low end  to 3.5x on the low end and even a 2.5x or 2x on the low end would be greatly desirable in low light or at night because when it gets dark you are usually working much closer. Personally I can stand to give up something on the low end but if I do I sure better be getting a lot on the high end like a 4-16 or a 5-20    for low light what do you think of these:
 
Swarovski 2-12x50 Z6 30mm Riflescope 4 Swarovski 2-12x50 Z6 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SWA59312
  • Matte
  • 4
  • 30mm
$2,229.00 
Swarovski 2-12x50 Z6i 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SWA69338
  • Matte
  • Illuminated 4A
  • 30mm
  • 2nd Generation
$2,949.00 
Swarovski 1.7-10x42 Z6i 30mm Riflescope Swarovski 1.7-10x42 Z6i 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SWA69238
  • Matte
  • Illuminated 4A
  • 30mm
  • 2nd Generation
$2,779.00 

 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - May/07/2013 at 20:43
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/08/2013 at 13:03
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My wife and I use the Kxi on our predator hunting rifles. The illumination is great for eent when its hard to see even heavy reticles. Looking at the exit pupil of all the mentioned, I would still lean towards the KXi myself. If you would like as well, I would be happy to try and take some lowlight shots for you through either the KXi or the Helia C 3-12x56. Have and use both.

Regards,
Ken
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/08/2013 at 16:46
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as far as 3-12x56 id consider a meopta meostar    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2013 at 03:39
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Originally posted by stickbow46 stickbow46 wrote:

To stir the pot a little,have you taken a look at the Premier Heritage illum hunter?Side by side it beat out my S&B Zenith,my Leica but not my Hensoldt that was too close to call.I'm only talking about glass resolution in this situation.Also have you taken a look at the Zeiss Victory HT,I haven't had a chance to look at one yet but I hear fantastic things about that scope.


Premier is really great, i have tested the Premier Light Tactical model against Victory HT and it is every-bit as bright as HT and equal or better in all other aspects.



About the Kahles Helia C vs Zeiss Victory Diavari I also have to agree with opinions some posts before that Zeiss is a little bit better. However Helia C scopes were about 25% cheaper (Victory Diavari is not sold any more) and thus a great deal.




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2013 at 20:18
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Originally posted by stilhuntin stilhuntin wrote:

Can't make up my mind. How would you rate the following for deer hunting 200-300 yards in low light (30 minutes past sun down)? The more research I do the less I see a clear winner!
All are in the same price range and 30 mm or 1 inch doesn't matter to me. I will be hunting from a stand most of the time. I know the Leica has a smaller objective lens, but I have heard many good things about them and the others as well.

Zeiss 3-12x56 Victory Diavari 30mm
Kahles-3-12x56-Helia-C-30mm
Kahles-3.5-10x50-Helia-KXi. Don't know much about an illuminated scope. Never had one.
Leica-2.5-10x42-ER-30mm

Hope you guys don't mind all the questions and posts, but this the most knowledgable and friendly group I have seen.
 
I have the top 2 scopes you posted. BELIEVE ME, the Zeiss 3-12 is the probably the best low light scope on the planet. I haven't looked through a S&B 56, but if its better than the Zeiss 3-12 especially the new Zeiss 3-12s HT, then my Lord what have we come to.
 
I hunt 1 hour past sunset in swamps and bean fields, the Diavari beats the Helia but the Helia is no slouch, its a fine hunting scope. At 30 minutes past sunset you should be fine its 45 minutes to an hour where the Zeiss really starts to make a huge difference. The Zeiss 56s are for EXTREME low light. Like I said, here in SC late November its overcast and 45 minutes past sunset its very difficult to see without premium optics. Most guys have gone home but thats when mature deer move here. They are for deer hunting in those conditions and many people are hunting hogs at night from tree stands like the germans do in europe. I've looked through and hunted with lots of scopes. I haven't found anything brighter than a Zeiss 56mm.


Edited by Obi Wan Kenobi - May/17/2013 at 20:26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/23/2013 at 21:48
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Thanks for all the input on these scopes.
Today, I steered away from my list and purchased a Swarovski 2-12x50-Z6i-30mm scope with an illuminated 4A reticle from SWFA. I think this will work just fine. Will put it on a Tikka .308 until the rifle I ordered arrives.
Chris Farris said it was a good scope and was helped me decide on the Swarovski over a Schmidt and Bender Zenith. Hope we picked right. The staff at SWFA was very helpful as we all knew they would be. Again, thanks and hopefully no more questions for a while.
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