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How would you have acted?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 18:53
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   This guy acted within  the law, but I think I would have handled it differently. Let's here how some of you would have addressed this situation.     http://www.click2houston.com/news/14615114/detail.html
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 19:39
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How was how this guy acted legal?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 21:01
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This is very near where I live, In Texas you are allowed to shoot someone that is on your neighbors property if they ask you to
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 21:14
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(TEXAS) Protection of the Property of Others

"A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect the property of a third person if he reasonably believes he would be justified to use similar force to protect his own property, and he reasonably believes that there existed an attempt or actual commission of the crime of theft or criminal mischief."

"Also, a person is justified in using force or deadly force if he reasonably believes that the third person has requested his protection of property; or he has a legal duty to protect the property; or the third person whose property he is protecting is his spouse, parent or child."

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 21:38
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Texas law is differant than most states.  With that said the owner of the property did not give him permission to act on his behalf.  The dispatcher told him not to.
 
Now, I do not want to see anything happen to the guy... Yet even it seem to me that even Texas law did not permit his actions.  I do believe that a Texas jurry will not convict him.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 21:54
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 I have somewhat mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, if this happened a lot more often, it would eventually stop happening altogether!
 On the other hand, I kinda hate to see somebody get blown away for burglary.
 Paralyzed for life, maybe, but not killed...
 Oh well, nobody ASKED them to break into the house.
 If the media would help make an example out of them, they wouldn't have died in vain, either.  "See, kids, this is what happens when you steal stuff."
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 22:36
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I would not have acted in the way that this guy did, but I'm not disappointed with the outcome.  Having been burglarized once, it is probably one of the worst feelings, and I have no empathy for the guys.
Or should that be sympathy?


Edited by ckk1106 - February/27/2008 at 23:05
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 22:58
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Death is the ultimate penalty, the bible says, "An eye for an eye" and The State of Texas agrees (more criminals are put to death in Texas a year than any other state by a large margin).  In this case I don't think the punishment fit the crime, had they been apprehended and convicted the death penalty would not have been considered.....but on the other hand how was the shooter to know that his neighbors were not dead inside their house.  In a society where taxi drivers are killed in cold blood for $20. and people are killed for their Nike shoes it is reasonable to assume the worse case scenario will be the outcome of any petty crime.
 
I have ZERO sympathy for any criminal but I must say due to the 911 operators communications and it not being my property, I would have refrained from using deadly force in this particular circumstance.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 23:29
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I won't kill unless I'm in a position that would warrant deadly force, that being said if I saw one of them was armed and they turned to confront me, or I saw a hostage situation, Ol Trigger Finger gets real happy............  Come%20and%20Get%20Some
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 07:43
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Originally posted by silver silver wrote:

Texas law is differant than most states.  With that said the owner of the property did not give him permission to act on his behalf.  The dispatcher told him not to.
 
Now, I do not want to see anything happen to the guy... Yet even it seem to me that even Texas law did not permit his actions.  I do believe that a Texas jurry will not convict him.
          It was later said on the radio that the owner did infact gave him permission to watch their property while they were gone, I'm sure we will here different stories on this one untill it all comes out in the wash.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 07:50
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I believe what the man did is morally correct, but in the state of NC, he would be indited and probably convicted.  I have a cw permit and you can only use deadly force if you or your neighbor is in fear of your life.  Ridiculous, I know, but that is the law.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 07:50
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    It was also stated later on that same radio show that one of the criminals did have a pistol. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 12:14
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It becomes fairly clear cut if one of the criminals was armed when he confronted them.  I spent a lot of years as a Texas Peace Officer and while Texas law says you can use deadly force for criminal mischief during the night time etc. - -  I will tell you that deadly force is only justifiable if you are defending your life or someone elses life.   I can also tell you that when the adrenalin kicks in during a confrontation with a burglar you have very little time to plan your actions and the reasonableness of shooting someone is measured by multiple factors.
 Probably the most important factor is where did the act occur.  If you are inside your home and someone breaks in especially during the nighttime when you are likely to be there you are reasonable to think that they are there to  hurt you.  Most residential burglars hit during the day and break into unoccupied businesses at night.  In this case the man put himself at risk by doing what he thought was right rather than doing the safe thing - observe and report.  It makes him look bad in the media that he did not do what the dispatcher told  him to do because they advised  the safest course of action.  The fact is that this man was inside  his house and by the nature of the situation he felt threatened.  If the burglars broke into the neighbors house they may now be on their way to break into his  house.  If the neighbor asked him to watch their property while they were away and he attempted to make a citizens arrest during an inprogress felony - I dont think he will be in any trouble.  Texas law probably still allows you to shoot a fleeing fellon -  I shot a fleeing burglar in a high speed pursuit running over 100 mph with an 870 riot gun with my left hand using buckshot  in Texas. (He was an immediate danger to me and to others.)  It sure drops your burglary rate.  The determining factor though is if the perp is an immediate danger to you or to others. At the time he was crossing a mile long two way concrete bridge and he had to be stopped before he hit someone head on.  Failing to act would result in the high likelyhood of some innocent person being killed in a head on collision.  


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/28/2008 at 12:32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 12:22
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I personally would have a hard time living with myself if I killed someone over some "tangible thing(s)"  especially if it was my neighbors.  It would be hard enough knowing you killed someone even if it was to protect your own life or the life of someone else.  Its something you would  have to think about and live with the rest of your life, it would have to be tough.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 12:35
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How do you know he didnt go out there and confront the burglar and attempt to make a citizens  arrest - legal in a felony or breach of the peace  to detain and hold them until police arrived-  at which time the armed burglar drew a pistol on him and  he was forced to defend his own life.    I mean really now he could have shot them out the window without warning and without any personal risk which to me suggests he did not just go out and intentionally gun them down as the media would have you believe.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/28/2008 at 12:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 12:58
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Here is the audio of the whole thing.  The guy wanted to kill them, if he just would have stayed it the house nothing would have happened and the cops would have got them.  There was absolutely no need to put himself at risk over the neighbors property.  In the audio it sounds like he just walk right out and shot them.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3d_1195171937
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 13:05
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It doesnt take very long for one man to say Freeze and another to draw a gun on him.
 
He can come live next door to me.  
 
Eaven the dispatcher added to him having a reasonable belief that if he confronted them the burglars would shoot him by telling him if he goes out that door hes going to get shot.
 
If all he wanted to do was to shoot them he could have easily done that without going outside at all.  He was unwilling to let the bad guy get away after seeing them commit a felony -  I've been in that same position in Texas multiple times.  Back when we expected personal responsibility of people along with that came some sense public responsibility looking out for your fellow man especially your neighbors.  Under the hide in your house mind set it would sure be hard to get a posse together to go after the bad guys. Thats OK wait long enough the bad guys will come to you they already outnumber law enforcement and are more heavily armed.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/28/2008 at 13:51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 13:11
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Regardless of that he did not need to put himself in the situation in the first place.  The biggest factor in winning a fight is to avoid it in the first place, he wanted a confrontation and he wanted to fight.  You can hear that throughout all the audio, from the beginning he intended to walk out and get into it with them. 
I am not saying they did not get what they deserved, all I am saying is what the guy did was unnecessary and stupid on his part, he could have gotten himself shot or killed over the neighbors tangible property.  In the end he won and good for him, but it could have easily turned out different.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 13:35
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On the tape, you can hear him telling the dispatcher that they came at him in the yard.  If that is true, he is justified in shooting since he was fearing for his life.  Now, he shouldn't have gone out of the house.  I understand what he was feeling, but as the dispatcher said, it isn't worth shooting someone over stolen property.  I don't, however, feel bad that there are two less criminals in the world.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 13:55
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He wanted them stopped - apprehended - taken into custody.  He felt a personal obligation to arrest and detain them pending the arrival of police.   Had he merely wanted to shoot the burglars he could have done so from cover without risk.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 18:27
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After listening to the tape, he did what was morally right.  People cannot get away with robbing in the middle of the day.  He waited patiently and stated they came into his yard.  When they set out to burglarize that house, they knew the risk and they got what they deserved.  I have no remorse for them and consider him to be a hero.  If somebody was robbing my house, I would hope that one of my neighbors would have the guts to prevent it from being completed, I would do the same for them.  In this state though, I would have to wait until I felt that I was in imminent danger and it appears he felt the same way.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 18:22
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Once you have been robbed you can never enter your own house without fear that there may be someone in there. You you know this because it is true. I stay armed and I have a backhoe. Nuf said.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 09:31
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 Probably the best thing to do in that situation is to shoot them in the lungs with a suppressed .22.  Don't call 911 at all.
 Let 'em run a couple blocks before croaking.
 Clean gun and act dumb when the cops show up.
 No need to even get the backhoe out of the shed that way.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2008 at 22:02
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Not real sure how I would have reacted on the neighbors property but once I was or felt threatened, well....double taps for all.Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2008 at 22:07
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 Probably the best thing to do in that situation is to shoot them in the lungs with a suppressed .22.  Don't call 911 at all.
 Let 'em run a couple blocks before croaking.
 Clean gun and act dumb when the cops show up.
 No need to even get the backhoe out of the shed that way.


Laugh  Thats funny Ron.  That sounds like something John Clark would do.  Or you could put them in the pressure chamber for some added torture.
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