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How much better is Pentax 80ED over Bushnell 80ED

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2010 at 14:47
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I was planning on getting  Bushnell Elite 20-60x80ED. Now I am almost considering getting the Pentax PF-80ED  with  Pentax 20X-60X Zoom Eyepiece 70509 . I know there is a good price gap there. But the only reason I was considering it is cause I can buy the body and eyepiece seperately. So I can get one then wait a while and get the other (as bad as it would kill me to wait).
 
My question is how much better is the Pentax of the Bushnell?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2010 at 08:36
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I'd buy the pentax.  Althought the Elite glass is great, the pentax allows the use of any 1.25" eyepiece.  There are many choices there.  My only gripe with these two is they are L-O-N-G.......  The NIkon 82ED is much more compact and has amazing glass.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2010 at 09:55
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Pentax. No question.

And it might be your lucky day.  I "might" have one for sale in the next day or so, PM me if you are interested.

It is a great spotter, best I've seen/used for under $1,500.  Image quality is fantastic, best eye piece at any price.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2010 at 10:27
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Please forgive my ignorance, but  what are advantages of the different eye pieces over just the 20-60 one? just more eye relief?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2010 at 10:33
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Wider field of view (in the 30X anyway.)

Eye relief isn't to a spotter what it is to a rifle scope: further away ain't better, just ask anyone who has owned/used a USO spotter.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2010 at 13:24
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The Pentax is the better spotter optically.  This is greatly enhanced by it's ability to utilize the dizzying array of available 1.25"eyepieces including Pentax's own SMC eyepieces which are wonderful. It is, however, absolutely huge and very heavy.  You won't take this scope with you very far from your vehicle.

The Bushnell does not enjoy the same kind of eyepiece variability.  It can only accept Bushnell proprietary eyepieces and they are very difficult to come by - most are not even made anymore.  For the most part, you will be stuck with the 20-60 zoom eyepiece that comes with the scope.  Nevertheless, the Elite is an excellent scope and it is much less expensive.  It also is very significantly smaller and lighter and better suited to packing around. 


Edited by lucznik - April/30/2010 at 13:26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2010 at 17:58
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I agree with lucznik 100%.  Due to the size and weight of the Pentax, I would seriously consider the Nikon 82ED.  The Pentax eyepiece may be somewhat better with larger FOV, but if you don't wear glasses ( I don't) the Nikon was every bit as good as my neighbor's Zeiss 85 FL T when comparing side by side.  The Nikon, with the 30x wide angle is as good as it gets, bar none.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2010 at 08:37
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I ended up with the Pentax 80ED-A. It will only be used from the house window, porch or off the porch for target practice. It was everything I expected and more. Fantastic.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2010 at 11:18
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I agree with lucznik 100%.  Due to the size and weight of the Pentax, I would seriously consider the Nikon 82ED.  The Pentax eyepiece may be somewhat better with larger FOV, but if you don't wear glasses ( I don't) the Nikon was every bit as good as my neighbor's Zeiss 85 FL T when comparing side by side.  The Nikon, with the 30x wide angle is as good as it gets, bar none.  



BS Flag



Best you've seen or used, sure (in the circumstances you have seen and used. "[A]s good as it gets, bar none", no chance.  I've read a few knowledgeable reviews on the Nikon, it sounds like a good scope, but "the best, "bar none", sorry brother, not this time around.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2010 at 19:22
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I agree with lucznik 100%.  Due to the size and weight of the Pentax, I would seriously consider the Nikon 82ED.  The Pentax eyepiece may be somewhat better with larger FOV, but if you don't wear glasses ( I don't) the Nikon was every bit as good as my neighbor's Zeiss 85 FL T when comparing side by side.  The Nikon, with the 30x wide angle is as good as it gets, bar none.  



BS Flag



Best you've seen or used, sure (in the circumstances you have seen and used. "[A]s good as it gets, bar none", no chance.  I've read a few knowledgeable reviews on the Nikon, it sounds like a good scope, but "the best, "bar none", sorry brother, not this time around.

I suppose that illustrates how everyone's eyes are different.  I tested 82mm ED Fieldscope some time back and thought that the spotter itself was pretty good, but unexceptional.  However, I also thought Nikon's eyepieces were pretty much devil's spawn put on earth primarily to annoy me.

Apparently, I was not the only one to note that, since Nikon has tacitly acknowledged that and took a different design philosophy with their EDG spotters and eyepieces.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 09:10
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I agree with lucznik 100%.  Due to the size and weight of the Pentax, I would seriously consider the Nikon 82ED.  The Pentax eyepiece may be somewhat better with larger FOV, but if you don't wear glasses ( I don't) the Nikon was every bit as good as my neighbor's Zeiss 85 FL T when comparing side by side.  The Nikon, with the 30x wide angle is as good as it gets, bar none.  



BS Flag



Best you've seen or used, sure (in the circumstances you have seen and used. "[A]s good as it gets, bar none", no chance.  I've read a few knowledgeable reviews on the Nikon, it sounds like a good scope, but "the best, "bar none", sorry brother, not this time around.

I suppose that illustrates how everyone's eyes are different.  I tested 82mm ED Fieldscope some time back and thought that the spotter itself was pretty good, but unexceptional.  However, I also thought Nikon's eyepieces were pretty much devil's spawn put on earth primarily to annoy me.

Apparently, I was not the only one to note that, since Nikon has tacitly acknowledged that and took a different design philosophy with their EDG spotters and eyepieces.

ILya



If you did a little more searching, particularly from tests done by a fellow named Kimmo Absetz (sp?), you wouldn't be raising your smartass BS flag.  I will concede..."almost" as good as it gets. I was specifically talking about the 30x WA fixed.  Fell free to re-read and try to comprehend that this time.  I'm also pretty sure you weren't there when we did the Zeiss/Nikon comparison my friend.. 

I'll be sure to run my posts by you first before I post them to the public to make sure they meet your approval. 


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The gap in image quality between an inexpensive binocular and an excellent binocular is there to see, even to an untrained eye, but compared to the quality gap between a cheap spotting scope and an expensive spotting scope … well, let's just say we are talking the Grand Canyon, now. To put it simply, the optical challenge escalates quickly as magnification goes up. It's a whole different game at 60x than it is at 8x.

Most spotting scopes produce reasonable image quality at low magnifications, even some of the least expensive. Turn the zoom ring up, though. and you learn very quickly how good a spotting scope you have. Cheap scopes rarely make it to 30x before the image deteriorates. A good scope will hang in there to 40x or a bit more before image quality starts to drop off. A good buy here is the Eagle Optics Raven or the Swift Nighthawk. If you want a scope as sharp at 60x as it is at 20x, though, you are looking at a select handful (and very expensive) spotting scopes. Now we're talking the big 5 - Swarovski HD, Leica APO, Nikon Fieldscope 82ED, Kowa 82mm fluorite and Zeiss. More on these later.


Edited by JGRaider - May/17/2010 at 17:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 17:27
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Ilya, with all due respect, do a search over on the birdforum and you'll find many knowledgeable people who hold the ED82 in very high regard.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 17:46
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Ilya, with all due respect, do a search over on the birdforum and you'll find many knowledgeable people who hold the ED82 in very high regard.  

I spend a fair amount of time browsing bird and astronomy forums and I do not doubt that a lot of people like it.  

However, having spent some time with it myself, I simply disagree.  

Once again, image quality itself was not a major concern for me.  Usability and configuration, however, were.

25-75x magnification range, to me, is totally wrong.  50 to 75x was essentially useless, while 25x was not low enough.

Then there is the short and critical eyereleif.

I will take the 80mm Pentax with SMC zoom over the Fieldscope any day and twice on weekends.

82mm Fieldscope with 25-75x zoom eyepiece runs about $1300
80mm Pentax with 20-60x SMC zoom eyepiece runs about $1150

My recommendation would be to either get the Pentax or add a little money and get Vortex Razor HD.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 20:36
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In fact I'd love to have that Razor, but I hate angled EP's.  My experience with the 82 Ed's zoom is a little different than yours.  The eye relief is marginal, I'll give you that.  I've guided aoudad hunts for two years using it alongside my neighbor's Zeiss 85 T FL, and there are many times the zoom is usable to 75x,  The only thing the Zeiss has over it is FOV and eye relief, but I don't wear glasses so it's a non issue.  There's absolutely no difference in the two optically.  I've looked through them side by side probably 50 times under most any possible condition.  The Pentax is too long and heavy for my liking and it didn't balance/handle the way I llike.  Have you ever looked through the Nikon with the fixed 30x? That was my point in the original post.  BTW I spent $1025 for the spotter, zoom and fixed EP.  Like I said, not trying to be argumentative, and I appreciate your knowledge and opinion, but you cannot see things through the Pentax, Vortex, Zeiss, or anything else that I can't see with the 82ED.  I don't look at mites on a sparrow's azz, I'm talking about big game hunting.  Everyone sees things differently, and that's what makes the world go round.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2010 at 01:37
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

In fact I'd love to have that Razor, but I hate angled EP's.  My experience with the 82 Ed's zoom is a little different than yours.  The eye relief is marginal, I'll give you that.  I've guided aoudad hunts for two years using it alongside my neighbor's Zeiss 85 T FL, and there are many times the zoom is usable to 75x,  The only thing the Zeiss has over it is FOV and eye relief, but I don't wear glasses so it's a non issue.  There's absolutely no difference in the two optically.  I've looked through them side by side probably 50 times under most any possible condition.  The Pentax is too long and heavy for my liking and it didn't balance/handle the way I llike.  Have you ever looked through the Nikon with the fixed 30x? That was my point in the original post.  BTW I spent $1025 for the spotter, zoom and fixed EP.  Like I said, not trying to be argumentative, and I appreciate your knowledge and opinion, but you cannot see things through the Pentax, Vortex, Zeiss, or anything else that I can't see with the 82ED.  I don't look at mites on a sparrow's azz, I'm talking about big game hunting.  Everyone sees things differently, and that's what makes the world go round.  

There is nothing particularly wrong with being argumentative.  If we always agreed, life would be no fun!

I have never seen the Nikon with the 30x eyepiece, hence I only mentioned the variable.  I have looked at side by side with some nice glass (I looked at the 82mm Fieldscope on a couple of different occasions and next to a few different spotters).  To my eyes, it is not in the same league as the top end glass (Leica, Kowa, etc), although I did not see it side by side with Zeiss.  Once the light got challenging it could not hang in with the alpha glass (nor can Pentax, but the eyepiece agrees with me better).  If it works well for your eyes and you see no difference compared to alpha glass, than you are a fortunate man and you will never be inclined to drop $3k on a spotter.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2010 at 09:09
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Koshkin, here's a nice review by an expert across the pond.  You may have already seen it, and granted it's from 2007 but the scopes are/were unchanged until very recently.   As you say, it's amazing how differently people see things. 

http://www.lintuvaruste.fi/hinnasto/...wa883_GB.shtml


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2010 at 14:07
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Koshkin, here's a nice review by an expert across the pond.  You may have already seen it, and granted it's from 2007 but the scopes are/were unchanged until very recently.   As you say, it's amazing how differently people see things. 

http://www.lintuvaruste.fi/hinnasto/...wa883_GB.shtml



It looks like a nicely detailed review, but I flat out disagree with it.  YMMV.

If you look hard enough you can support any point of view you want.  For example, Birdwatcher's Digest (they sell spotters so I will not link it here), recently looked at Razor HD and thought it was very good.  They thought Nikon EDG was only marginally better than Pentax 80ED which is 2.5x cheaper.

Then there is the Cornell Ornithology Lab whose results I find totally erratic (different eyes maybe?).  To me it seems like they start collectively dry-humping when in presence of certain brands' products.  Interestingly, despite never having uttered a bad word about a Nikon product, they quietly ranked the Fieldscope eyepiece as a numerical equivalent "devil's spawn" in their summary table.

Bottom line, everyone sees things differently.  My opinion on the 82mm Fieldscope is the following (yes I know I am re-iterating): nice spotter with a horrible eyepiece.  Pure optical quality of the Fieldscope has never been a problem for me.  However, that eyepiece effectively prevents me from utilizing that optical quality under most circumstances and with most magnifications.

I am not sure if I can express it any more clearly.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2010 at 14:25
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I didn't ask you to express anything.   I thought the article was interesting to say the least, and he obviously disagrees with you.  In case you missed it, I'll reemphasize what was in my original post I specifically addressed the 30x fixed EP, no zoom.  Since you've never seen one, you have no basis for comment, IMO.  No offense intended.  Excuse the hell out of me.

Edited by JGRaider - May/26/2010 at 14:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2010 at 15:09
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

The Nikon, with the 30x wide angle is as good as it gets, bar none.  



Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

There's absolutely no difference in the two optically.  



Let's all take a deep breath and consider a few things, shall we?

1. Any given scope by any given maker can look very different than exactly the same name, model, and power scope by the same maker.

2.  When comparing scopes, like rifles or ammo or anything, you are comparing THAT item, not all items under said banner.

3.  Use of words like "absolutely" and "bar none" indicate many, many unspecified assumptions have been made.

4.  Every eye is unique and sees things slightly different than every other eye - including the 2 eyes in the same head.  That one person sees things differently than another doesn't necessarily make one right and the other wrong - just as looking through a scope with your right eye will lead to entirely different observances than looking through the exact same scope with your left eye.

5.  We ain't curing cancer here, take a step back and a deep breath.  Our purpose here is to help others and maybe get some help when needed.  At no time should anyone here take these discussion personally.

The "BS" flag was a direct response to an unqualified and unilateral generalization.  If any poster makes a "better than any other..." remark regarding any optical or mechanical device, the flag will be raised again; it ain't personal, just a nice reminder that to "bar none", one must have experienced all - and that "absolutely no difference" is a universal impossibility.

No dirt being slung, just stating that absolutes are dangerous, and all generalizations are bad - even this one.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2010 at 15:13
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JGRaider, no freak'in way!  After all that, you are now selling the Nikon?  For a Kowa?

Where's the love!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2010 at 15:23
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Whew,  i never knew things heated up in the spotter threads

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2010 at 15:26
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Wow i really got it started. Didnt mean to make such a mess.
 
Well there is only one way to settle this dispute
Gentlemen, pistols, 25 paces
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2010 at 15:31
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Whacko
 


Edited by SVT_Tactical - May/26/2010 at 15:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2010 at 15:31
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25 paces, my ass; 1,000 yards, we each take 2 shots at the other's spotter, whoever's spotter isn't destroyed is the undeniable best spotter. Ever!


O yea, the gauntlet has been thrown!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2010 at 15:58
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I didn't ask you to express anything.   I thought the article was interesting to say the least, and he obviously disagrees with you.  In case you missed it, I'll reemphasize what was in my original post I specifically addressed the 30x fixed EP, no zoom.  Since you've never seen one, you have no basis for comment, IMO.  No offense intended.  Excuse the hell out of me.

No offense taken.

I was very specific in referring to the zoom eyepiece only.  Also, I thought that the review you linked also deals mostly with the zoom eyepiece.

The review was indeed interesting and very thorough.  The guy certainly saw things differently than I do.

ILya
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