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How high on low will you go?

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cyborg View Drop Down
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Gaseous Clay

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2010 at 12:38
AR's are tough on scopes. Don't ever skimp when the rifle is an AR type. Get the best scope you can afford. Get the best glass you can, and forget about the added magnification. A well built scope, with good to great resolution is the best way to go. 12X on the top side should allow you to see bullet holes @ 100 yards if you great resolution. 15, or 20 if you have good resolution.
On my AR, I use a Nikon Monarch X 2.5-10X 44, that allows me to see .308 bullet holes at 150 yards. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2010 at 12:42
Oh yeah.... Welcome to Optics Talk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2010 at 13:04
good glass will trump magnification when it comes to seeing those bullet holes like you want
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2010 at 13:07
Exactly. Good magnification (useable determinate upon vision), and good to great resolution will get the results he wants.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2010 at 13:15
Originally posted by Flats Flats wrote:

I'm in the same boat.  I was going to try to do this by research only without asking any (probably dumb) questions, but I give.
 
I'd like something for an AR platform that will let me see 5.56 holes at 100 yards, take hunting shots at no more than 200, and function (or at least not get in the way) as a HD optic.  I went from a (military) trigger puller to a chairborne warrior not long after the Aimpoint influx, so I have zero experience with magnified optics.
 
I was leaning towards just getting two different medium quality scopes, ponying up for good QD mounts, and swapping as needed.  When I started adding up the cost (4200 3x9 + Larue), plus a yet-to-be-determined 1x4 (or fixed 1.5-2?) + Larue, I was bumping up against an uncomfortable figure.  If I'm spending $800-$1000 and something like a TR20 will do it all, am I better off with one scope?  10 years ago I'd be fine with iron sights, but my eyes aren't getting better with age, and if somebody else has to use the weapon (wife), they don't have the muscle memory I do.  I'd really like an illuminated optic (or laser?) + the 4200 for target/hunting.  I don't really want to spend over $1000, and would much prefer to spend half that.  I'm a casual (3 or so times/year) hunter, and the odds of me needing a HD carbine are low low low.  I just believe in insurance.Big Smile  With no scope experience, I might be just as happy with a $100 hunting scope with a decent mount, re-zero as needed, and the Leatherwood CMR.  Too many choices.

I would suggest you look at Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40.  It will do most of what you need:

If you really feel compelled to have a red dot on it, you can try to add a small red dot to it over time either in separate QD mount or mounted onto the Accupoint.

There are a multiple nice options.  For example, you could try Warne's new mount that allows for mounting both primary and secondary sights:

Then you can add a small reddot like an Aimpoint Micro or any other decent miniature sight (with Burris Fastfire probably being the cheapest decent one).

Nice thing about multi-piece setup like this is that you do not have to buy it all at the same time.

You do not have to buy top of the line stuff, but it is usually better to buy decent optics even if it takes longer.

That having been said, you can go with a cheaper primary scope than the Aimpoint.  If you want an illuminated reticle, the cheapest good quality option is this (it is heavily discounted right now; it used to be over $300):

Everything else can be the same, except you would need a 30mm mount.  If you go with this approach, you can have the following:

Hawke Endurance 30 3-9x42: $179
Warne 30mm MultiSight mount:  $199
Aimpoint Micro H-1: $564

With this you stay within $1000 for the whole thing.  You can go with a less expensive red-dot sight to stay within lower budget as well.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shooter07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2010 at 13:17
It all boils down to how much you want to spend, and what you will use your sight for. I'm very big on quality and the old saying, you get what you pay for. If you can spend a little extra, do it, because it may keep you from having to buy again. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2010 at 13:50
How about this scope?
Use the mount Koshkin recommends, and look for a cheaper reflex style dot sight.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flats Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2010 at 15:30
Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm not dead set on a red dot, and wouldn't want one at all if I got a TR20 triangle.  And I've played with some $100 red dots that I'd trust for that purpose, so it sounds like the wisest use of money will be on a quality hunting optic, which wouldn't need illumination if I have a secondary for BAC.  In the $300-$500 range, is a 3x9 enough enough to see groups @100m?  If not, will it at least see them @ 50m?  The 100m visual would be a "nice to have", but it's not a necessity. 
 
I know in most things, there's a sweet spot where you can get good quality for a good price.  Go above it, and you get more, but doubling the price doesn't double the quality.  go below it, and the quality degrades to where you're better off spending a little more to get a lot better.  From reading this form, it looks like that line for scopes (at least in the 3x9 category) is in the $150-$300 range.  Is that a reasonably accurate statement?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2010 at 16:37
Originally posted by Flats Flats wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm not dead set on a red dot, and wouldn't want one at all if I got a TR20 triangle.  And I've played with some $100 red dots that I'd trust for that purpose, so it sounds like the wisest use of money will be on a quality hunting optic, which wouldn't need illumination if I have a secondary for BAC.  In the $300-$500 range, is a 3x9 enough enough to see groups @100m?  If not, will it at least see them @ 50m?  The 100m visual would be a "nice to have", but it's not a necessity. 
 
I know in most things, there's a sweet spot where you can get good quality for a good price.  Go above it, and you get more, but doubling the price doesn't double the quality.  go below it, and the quality degrades to where you're better off spending a little more to get a lot better.  From reading this form, it looks like that line for scopes (at least in the 3x9 category) is in the $150-$300 range.  Is that a reasonably accurate statement?

With a decent 3-9x40 scope, I can comfortably see bullet holes at 100yards, although naturally it somewhat depends on the target and lighting conditions.

In the $300-$500 range, your best bet for a typical hunting optic is Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40.

If you want a touch more magnification (without illumination), consider Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5-16x42.  That will definitely allow to see bullet holes easily, while not giving up the low end:

ILya
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