New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - HOME DEFENSE
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

HOME DEFENSE

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 06:21
rjtfroggy View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: August/24/2009
Location: WTBY. CT.
Status: Offline
Points: 379
 
   I am thinking seriously about home defense tools(weapons) and I am not realy sure on the next purchase. I already have a Colt 1911 45acp, a Colt gov. model 380 for carry, a model 1200 Winchester 12guage with "oo buck", now I am thinking about a AR with 16" barrel in 308 sighted for 35-50 yards and dedicate it for the house only. Any thoughts?
 What got me thinking about this was I read an article about civil unrest and defending your family,home and neighbors, and in these times of uncertainy one never knows what will come next. I should mention there are no children in the house so I'm not to worried about having these in different locations around the house.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 06:43
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 7694
For home defense, a .308 AR would not be a good choice - primarily due to over-penetration.  Do you really want to be firing rounds in your home that can go through an engine block, much less sheet rock and brick?

I'd consider a .223 AR, less over-penetration, more rounds on tap, and site it in at 10 yards.

Top it with a good red dot or Trijicon (1X) and you are good to go.

Keep it away from any kids and be sure the "significant other" knows how to use it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 06:57
brav302 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: November/13/2008
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 105
For home defense its tuff to beat a shotgun.  An AR is not a good for home defense.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 07:44
martin3175 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: Maryland
Status: Offline
Points: 3773
AR for home defense is a bad choice -- over penetration  can cause injuries to inncocent folks and land you in civil court or worse-jail .. Stick with the shotgun and home defense designed rounds  .. The 45 will also work . I'd go with  230's or a home defense frangible style round ..
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 08:03
swtucker View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: September/03/2008
Location: Low Moor
Status: Offline
Points: 1430
I'd stick with the shotgun too.  If you want to spend AR-15 money...get a Benelli M4.  They are great shotguns. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 08:25
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9521
An AR won't over penetrate any more than buck shot would.  Many of the bullets are designed to tumble once they hit something like sheet rock to limit over penetration. 

One situation that would make me want the AR over the shotgun is if you had to shoot a precision shot.  If the bad guy had a gun up to your wifes head, I would hate to try and take a shot with a shotgun or a pistol, but a rifle sighted in at 10yards would certainly make the shot easier if a person was going to take it.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 08:51
Average Joe View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: April/24/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2178
My home defense,..............wake my wife up and she will take your life in a heartbeat.
My backup weapon is a 12 gauge shotty.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 08:56
LRSMike View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar
Slightly Stoopid

Joined: January/28/2010
Location: Washington
Status: Offline
Points: 677
if your wanting to do good home defense, go with the .223, like the other guys were saying. there is a E-Type silhouette thats meant for 25M zero, but it represents the silhouette at 300M, use that with a red dot, or a trijicon 1x with the JPoint red dot attachment on top, and zero it that way. Anything between 0-25 meters will be dead on with the zero I mentioned, and youll be able to do some target shooting at the range up to 300 meters with just a red dot, hopefully that helps you out
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 09:17
lucytuma View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: November/25/2007
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 5389
Add a dog to your list.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 09:42
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20472
Shotgun is my choice, with buckshot, if I'm inside a dwelling.
AR's are excellent IF.....one can get some type of training to become proficient. Most people buying AR's these days dont know what the hell they just bought.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 10:10
lucytuma View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: November/25/2007
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 5389
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Shotgun is my choice, with buckshot, if I'm inside a dwelling.
AR's are excellent IF.....one can get some type of training to become proficient. Most people buying AR's these days dont know what the hell they just bought.
Agreed, a short barrelled side by side, may be the simplest of all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 12:32
Sgt. D View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: February/20/2008
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 3641
Shotgun and 45 for in the house for sure. The 45 is best for visual contact. The 00 is better for thru wall one end of the house to the other. If you don't think so go find a abandoned farmhouse with drywall and see what you get from each one. Inside of 30ft the 00 will be more like a slug. Get your AR 223 or 308 (don't matter) and sight it for 100yds. Then if the threat is visible outside and not backin off you can easily terminate. Plus you need to know potential colatteral damage with the AR because unless you have a brick or block exterior your neighbors or bystanders are at risk. Yes drywall and wood will cause tumble, but it won't likely stop there. Need proof? Check the # of dead noncombatents in Iraq and Afgan specific to firefights then double it.
Oh, and if a family member is held at gun point. You have to determine eminate threat. If it's a lose, lose situation you are better off takin the shot because your being unarmed gets you both killed. I'd rather load with fmj and put a round thru their (family member) side/lung and kill the dirtbag than watch them shoot them and then me.
If your the one held at gunpoint then the Bruce Willis sloution is hard to beat if you can't take them some other way.
Stay Safe!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 12:35
Sgt. D View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: February/20/2008
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 3641
Originally posted by lucytuma lucytuma wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Shotgun is my choice, with buckshot, if I'm inside a dwelling.
AR's are excellent IF.....one can get some type of training to become proficient. Most people buying AR's these days dont know what the hell they just bought.
Agreed, a short barrelled side by side, may be the simplest of all.
.
 
 
A short barreled shotgun of any kind does allow the shot to seperate alittle sooner but, to get the best effect it has to be about 5in. under legal. Not that I really know anything about it. Bucky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 15:43
MMAShooter34 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: February/05/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 32
remy 870 is my choses, cut a little short(with in the law) easy to swing around on your next target. loaded with 00 buck then backed up with slugs
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 16:35
BeltFed View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: February/12/2008
Location: Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 16071
I'm gonna be sorry I got involved in this one but.......
A 5.56 AR is an excellent choice for home defense IF you use the proper ammo. There is less penetration with a 40gr blitz round in building materials such as drywall than 00buck or 9mm hollow points, yet it will still penetrate soft body armor, where 00 buck and 9mm won't.
Sight your AR for 50yds, this will give you a 200yd zero. You will be a couple of inches low at 300yds. Remember you have a mechanical offset in the sights in relation to the bore, so a target engaged at 15 to 25yds would need to aim about 1 1/2" high to place the round where you want it. If you sighted in at 10 yds anything past that the round would be high, the farther the higher.
A friend of mine made a video that was used by many PDs to help approve ARs for patrol rifle use.In it he demonstrated that the 223 with 40gr blitz rds had less penetration than common police shotgun and handgun rds in typical interior walls and soft tissue, yet still penetrayed soft body armor.
Keep in mind this is for hollow point 223. When using fmj bullits the results were different.
Ok now I'm ready for all the rants.................................but not till next week.Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 16:36
rjtfroggy View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: August/24/2009
Location: WTBY. CT.
Status: Offline
Points: 379
 
     As for the 308 and the shotgun I would use frangible bullets they are what is used in an aircraft. I also load the 45 with them. They turn to dust when they hit something solid,but will penetrate the human body.
  As for training the wife will be taught how to use the shotgun and the 45 and possibly my 28 year old daughter will take some interest.
  We already have a 100lb. shepard mix but all he does is make noise he thinks everyone is his friend useless for protection.
  Thanks for the thoughts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2010 at 20:11
Ed Connelly View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
God of no Chihuahua

Joined: December/16/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 24220
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2010 at 14:39
Longhunter View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: February/02/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 422
The recent score in our area is something like homeowners 5 or 6, home invaders 1.  The one situation where the home invaders won was where the poor wife got the husband's pistol, but didn't know how to work the safety.  He was killed.
 
Moral:  Your primary self-defense weapon should not have a lot of buttons, levers, or grip safeties that need to be pushed in order to work.  You or a family member will be grabbing this gun in a hurry, under the worst of circumstances.  A simple trigger pull should be all that is required.  Think revolver.
 
A Glock automatic is one possible alternative.  Unfortunately, I have seen these jam in the hands of a several excellent, but casual, shooters.   What a casual shooter can do at the end of a shooting course is quite different from what they will do several years later.  Typical problems are "limp-wristing" (which can happen in a struggle), and corroded ammunition because the pistol was loaded after cleaning without wiping the chamber dry of all solvent. 
 
Your serious backup to the "grab fast" gun should probably be a Mini-14 or AR (carbine length) with a low power (1.5 -4.5) scope, and frangible (i.e., varmint) ammunition for in-house use.  You will seriously wish for some electronic ear protection, if you use this or a magnum handgun.
 
A shotgun is a wonderful and devastating weapon, but most are too long to be conveniently used inside a house (unless you are barricaded in your bedroom).
 
An expert shooter should be able to defend himself (or herself) with practically any firearm in reach, so you guys and gals use whatever you want to.
 
Most important:  YOU get to set up the shooting scenario for what goes down in your own home.  A gun should be ready at hand within a few steps anywhere and everywhere in the house.  If the break-in occurs at night, set up your night lights so that the intruders (note the plural...these guys work in groups of two to four) are backlit, and have lost their night vision when they approach your bedroom.   1 to 5 million candlepower rechargeable spotlights are pretty cheap these days.  Hit 'em in the eyes with the beam from one of these things, and they won't see for a while!  Just be sure the spotlight is away from you and doesn't backlight you.
 
One more thought:  A lot of home invasions start with the homeowner opening the door to someone he or she doesn't know.  DON'T EVER DO THIS, even to be a good samaritan.  A young lady who worked for me was kidnapped, shot in the head, and left for dead in a deserted field after she opened her door to help an innocent-seeming young couple who were supposedly in town for a big event. 
 
I seriously recommend a GOOD door peephole viewer  Take a look at Home Depot's 160 degree Door Viewer (U-9896) if you want a really good one, as opposed to the cheap and useless kind you find in most hotels.  While it will let in a little daylight, it won't allow people to look in from outside.  However, you can see a LOT from inside.        


Edited by Longhunter - February/06/2010 at 14:55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2010 at 09:57
Sparky View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire


Joined: July/15/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 3190
I have a crimson trace on one of my 45s. And a while back a buddy had some individuals trying to break in. He put a red dot on the chest of one of them and they just ran away. Everyone knows what a red dot means.

 I had always heard about the over penetration of even a 223 so I was looking at a CX Storm in 45 acp. Or a FN PS90 in 5.7x28. To go with my 12 gage pump.

Beltfed is the video you talked about available?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2010 at 09:52
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9521
Here is a good video of pistol, rifle, and shotgun wall penetration.  http://www.downrange.tv/bestdefense/wall-penetration.htm


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2010 at 15:19
Voodoo6 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar
Now With Kung-Fu Grip!

Joined: March/29/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 213
Originally posted by Longhunter Longhunter wrote:

 
 
A shotgun is a wonderful and devastating weapon, but most are too long to be conveniently used inside a house (unless you are barricaded in your bedroom).
 
 
You could always use a shotty with a collapsable stock, to shorten the length issue.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2010 at 21:31
Sgt. D View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: February/20/2008
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 3641
Excellant video Supertool. Something that everyone planning home defense should see. I had heard of useing bird shot before, but never saw it demonstraites . I like it, but it is still hard to get behind. And I was suprised that the 00 spread out as fast as it did. I had a different experience where the shot stayed together much longer. That could have been from the shotgun patterning different or I suspect it may have been due to the age of the drywall. If you've ever done any demolition you may have noticed that the drywall was much more brittle than new stuff. That is also a variable to consider in each home as the age of the home can offer all kinds of factors. Anyone living in an older block construction has alittle bit of an advantage concerning safety of family members in other rooms.
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "HOME DEFENSE"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
New Home Defense Ammo -Remmington Urimaginaryfrnd Shooting 16
Sabre Defense - Bankruptcy SVT_Tactical Firearms 2
self defense ammo ckk1106 Reloading & Ballistics 16
American Defense Scout mount, thumbs up ccoker Rings and bases 0
American Defense Mfg Big_Bayou_Hooter Tactical Scopes 1
Self defense ammo study RifleDude Reloading & Ballistics 11
ultimate handgun self-defense Dale Clifford Shooting 37
Daniel Defense Special Precision Rifle Scope???? cjsoccer3 Rifle Scopes 3
Home made D2 hunter tahqua Custom Knives 8
SWFA SS coming home !! Greenhorn#1 Rifle Scopes 40


This page was generated in 0.297 seconds.