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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2009 at 07:20
jcl View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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This forum seems like a perfect place to get some ideas for a scope I need for a rifle I am having built. 

The rifle has a Savage solid bottom action (small port) with 6oz-2lb trigger
30" Broughton 5c barrel chambered in 6.5x55 AI
Mcree modular aluminium stock (3" flat forend)
20 MOA base with Burris Signature rings 

It will be mainly used for F-Class and general target shooting up to 1000 yards but I also have regular access to a 1200 yard range which we shoot for fun.  With that in mind I am looking for a zoom scope with a magnification of at least 30x at the top end.  A 30mm tube to give me enough vertical adjustment, I reckon a minimum of 40MOA internal.  Must be good optically, ie bright with good resolution.  I prefer side parallax and external turrets but these are not so important. 

The thing I am struggling with is whether to go for 1/8 or 1/4 clicks.  If I've worked it out correctly, a 1/4 click will move 2.5" at 1000 yards and 3" at 1200 as compared to 1.25" and 1.5" with 1/8th clicks.  Common sense says that given all the other variables (mainly me)  it would be practically impossible to tell a 1.5" or 3" jump apart but I would really value some input from guys with experience shooting both types at these distances.

I look forward to seeing your recomendations for scopes in the $800 - $1000 range.   

Best regards, jcl.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2009 at 08:18
8shots View Drop Down
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My experience is that the scopes with an 1/8 clicks often adjust more accurately then a 1/4 click scope. This is mainly due to a better internal design. The price also reflects this. I have a Leupold 8,5-25x50 with a 30mm tube. This scope clicks more like 3 clicks to an inch at 100yds. At 200 yds 1 click moved me an inch right and 3 clicks down moved me 2 inches down.
So if price is not an issue then go for 1/8.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2009 at 12:30
jcl View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Thanks for your response.  I hear what you say but I would hope than an $800+ scope would have accurate adjustments or am I being naive?  Also, some real high-end scopes have 1/4" clicks so I don't think it is all down to cost.  I am not considering a Leupold anyway because the magnification is limited on their zoom scopes.  I have tried a Leupold with the Premiere conversion but found the eye relief way too critical. 

One thing I forgot to put on the requirements list is an etched mildot reticle, or at least some sort of rangefinding reticle. 
 
I have shortlisted a few scopes but I am interested to know what other people's recommendations are.    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2009 at 12:49
supertool73 View Drop Down
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http://swfa.com/Sightron-8-32x56-SIII-30mm-Riflescope-P11082.aspx  For the price range you are looking at these have probably the best glass and might be usable at that high of a power.  It will be tough to find a scope with high enough glass quality to really allow you to use that much magnification and see well.  Plus the exit pupil will be so small it will look like evening time through a scope like that. 

http://swfa.com/Bushnell-45-30x50-Elite-6500-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P13141.aspx

Weaver has their fixed power target scopes that have 1/8 MOA adjustments.  I am not finding many decent scopes with 1/8 MOA.
http://swfa.com/Weaver-T-Series-Rifle-Scopes-C235.aspx


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2009 at 14:08
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Having now played with a Mcree a little, I do like it, nice stock.

Looking at your setup and expectations, you're gonna need more than 40MOA elevation.  If you get a 20MOA base, you'll be sitting on the bottom - if you're lucky.

For that kinda range, glass quality is what you really, really need.  I've heard great things about Sightron (trying to get the 8-32 now to evaluate) and it will probably serve you well.  I'd also look at IOR 3-18 (though they have had issues, the glass is great for the money - and you might get lucky.)


I prefer 1/4 clicks, but that's me and I hate getting lost on the spin-up to range.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2009 at 15:49
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the 6500 that supertool is showing you I do not own but I do own the 6500 2.5-16 and have shot it out to 1/4 mile with good result in tracking and repeatability.  Glass is good enough to see .308 holes in brown paper at 300 yards.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2009 at 17:14
jcl View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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The Sightron and the Bushnell 6500 are both on my shortlist, as is the Hakko 8-34x56 and the Burris Black Diamond.  I have an old Hakko 4-16x56 which is great but I've read that the new ones made by JOL are not as good, does anyone have any experience?

I plan to use 139 Scenars pushed to around 2850 - 2900.  According to my ballistic charts, with a 100 yard zero I need another 25 MOA to get to 1000 and 35 MOA to get to 1200.  Therefore a 20 MOA mount with a 40 MOA scope should give me enough leeway.     


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2009 at 17:22
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Trust him when he says 40 MOA is not enough.  Get one with at least 60 to 70 for that cartridge.  You will be cutting stuff way to close with 40.  You will either be maxed out attempting to get a 100 yard zero (if you can) or at the other end reaching 1200. 

One of the main points of a slanted base is to keep your adjustments in the middle of the range, not to force you to both ends of the scope.  Being at the extreme end will affect windage as well.  If you mount your scope and it is not perfectly centered left to right then you will not have the whole 40 moa up and down either because you are dealing with a round tube.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2009 at 19:39
jcl View Drop Down
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Many thanks for your input.  I fully understand what you have said about canted bases and  using the extremes of the scope, what I didn't realise was that the Sightron SIII 8-32x56 has 70 MOA adjustment.  Are you saying that it won't be necessary to use a 20MOA mount if I use that scope?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2009 at 04:09
8shots View Drop Down
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To get back to the accuracy of clicks... my hunting buddy has a Bushnell on a 300 H&H. It dials 1 inch per click at 100yds! It does hold zero though.
 
If I had to buy again I would take a close look at Zeis and Nightforce.


Edited by 8shots - June/23/2009 at 04:11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2009 at 04:45
jcl View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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I really do appreciate everyone's input, it has been very useful.  Following the advice on here and info I've got from other sites and reviews I have asked my supplier to get me a price on the Sightron 8-32x56.  The main reason is that it seems as good, if not better optically than anything else in it's price range and it ticks most of the other boxes too. 
 
My problem is the USD - GBP exchange rate so it might prove too expensive in the UK, if that is the case I'll need to keep looking.
 
Thanks again for your input, please post any other suggestions in case the Sightron doesn't come off.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2009 at 11:05
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by jcl jcl wrote:

Many thanks for your input.  I fully understand what you have said about canted bases and  using the extremes of the scope, what I didn't realise was that the Sightron SIII 8-32x56 has 70 MOA adjustment.  Are you saying that it won't be necessary to use a 20MOA mount if I use that scope?


No, I would still get the 20 MOA base. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2009 at 12:35
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Optics GrassHopper
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No, I would still get the 20 MOA base. 
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the advice.  My supplier has come through on the deal so I have ordered the Sightron SIII 8-32x56 which is going to take 2 - 4 weeks to get to me so I've got time to sort the rings and base.  With a 20MOA base and 70MOA scope, is it still worth using Burris Signature rings?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2012 at 14:13
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Optics GrassHopper
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I own 3 of the jol tactical scopes all of my have preformed awesome!! I shoot 308 to 800 yards with no problems. And the is a dealer for them now in america XXXXXXXXXX.com
 
 
(Dont post links to competitors.)


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - May/01/2012 at 16:37
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