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Poll Question: Which scope would you chose
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
25 [67.57%]
2 [5.41%]
1 [2.70%]
9 [24.32%]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2007 at 16:54
rudy View Drop Down
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If you guys were to buy a new scope based on the following criteria (1# most important) which of these 4 scopes would you choose?

#1 Absolute reliablility under heavy recoil ( point of impact change, tracking, fogging, etc.)

#2 Weight

#3 Optics quality

The Swarovskis are about 18 OZ. The Schmidt + Benders about 22 OZ. The rifle that this scope will go on started breaking the erector springs in a Swarovski A line @ about 30 rounds. In 120 rounds all erector springs broken bullet holes all over target. Aprox. 48 lbs of recoil.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2007 at 17:13
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I have never owned either of the scopes and have never handled a S&B.  But, based on the opinions thrown around the forum and from what I have read, the S&B is suppose to be the most rugged scope made.



Edited by Dolphin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2007 at 17:21
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Welcome to the OT!!

 

Brother, I wouldn't hesitate to put a Zeiss VM/V in that mix too. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2007 at 20:30
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I realize you don't have Kahles on your list, and I don't own 1, but some of the guys on here claim the glass is better than the Swarovski. One of the Kahles owners will probably chime in, hopefully to discuss the tracking, holding zero, and durability.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 11:23
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I second Zeiss Diavari VM/V. I think the German Zeiss is at least on par with the scopes in the poll if not better. Just my opinion though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 11:47
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Welcome to the OT!!

 

Brother, I wouldn't hesitate to put a Zeiss VM/V in that mix too. 


And the Kahles 30mm, too! They have all that you need and are tough. I beat the hell out of mine and they keep on ticking.
I can't speak to the S&B or Z6 but have personally had problems with a Swaro 3-9 on a friends .338. The zoom tube broke loose while I was shooting it at the club. It now sits on a .222.
I think Swarovski makes excellent glass. My experience is a single one but it certainly has scared me away. Sorry, a sample size of one works for me.

Welcome to O.T.




Edited by tahqua
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 12:27
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I may have missed it but what rifle/caliber are you talking about?

Z6 2-12x50mm, 30mm tube. Love the versatility of the power range, up close and far away. Got it this year and have killed lots of paper with no issues. In the field where it counts, 2 shots, 2 kills.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

-Mike 

Edited by mike650
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 15:38
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Rifle is a 300 ultra mag, shooting 180 grain swift sirrocos @ 3425fps. After 2 years + $4000 gun was done. Did all barrel break in + most of load development over chronograph without scope being mounted on gun. After that mounted scope + did sight in + minor load tweaking for accuracy. I was done with about 30 rounds with scope on gun. Was practicing, checking final sight in just before elk trip when things went haywire. Swarozski said that all springs were broke do to recoil. They said if I put scope back on gun springs will break again. They said if I did that that they would warranty scope again but recomended going to a PH or a Z6 with the coil spring system, evidently the A series uses leaf springs. I have noticed other manufactures also use leaf springs in the erector system. Is it the design, defective leaf springs, my bad luck, not really sure. Lost a deposit on an elk trip over this. Swarovski said that the coil spring sytem on th PH + the Z6 could withstand repeated recoil from a 600 nitro express fired both barrels @ the same time + never break. I looked @ the Zeiss scopes but really do not need a 56mm bell as low light is not an issue. I would be fine with 40 mm bell. Really like the 50mm bells, perfect rifle + mount fit. I guess I just picked the wrong scope with the A series but weight is a major consideration (14 oz). I could take the weight of the Schmidt + Bender (22 oz) but would only be willing to do that for added reliability. I'm really leaning towards the Z6 @ 18 OZ only a 1/4 pound gain in rifle weight.

mike650 how many rounds of what caliber do you have under your Z6?

Are there any others out there with a Z6 shooting heavy kickers that could give a reliabilty report on round count + caliber?

I am just trying to not make the same mistake twice. On another sight a Canadian guide had posted that he had a client show up with a brand new Schmidt + Bender + it fogged heavy on the first day of a sheep hunt, almost rendered scope useless for whole hunt. These are the kind of things I am trying to avoid. I don't care if the scope cost $3000. I am trying to buy reliability above anything else. Obivously fit + function are important to.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 17:41
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 To be truthfully honest, I would be asking myself a whole different set of questions were I in your shoes. Such as: Do I really want to need rotator cuff surgery on my shoulder someday? And: Are detatched retinas really THAT bad? And: How much would it cost to cut that barrel back and rechamber it to a 30-06?

 I think it was your rifle that ultimately cost you that elk hunt, not the scope.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 18:20
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I have the z6 mounted on a pea shooter compared to the 300 um.

My brother has a Remington custom shop Africa Plains 300 um he bought when they first came out and he loves it. He magna-ported the beast to settle it down a little and hand loads his 180 grain swift siroccos. Day one he mounted a Leupold 6.5-20x50 (1" tube) with Leupold rings and bases and has never had a problem with it ; he's used this and shot this rifle with Leupold scope many times in Cali and Colorado with zero problems as well as at the range to dial in his loads.

I would say that you should not have a problem with any of the high end scopes you mentions as well as a few others not mentioned.

Good luck!

-Mike
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 20:41
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SS10X42 Super Sniper 10x42 30mm Rifle Scope                                                                                     Super Sniper 10x42 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
SWFA: $299.95
More Info... Buy Now

 

Sometimes Less is More.  

 

OK my heavy kicking rifles .375 H&H Encore Stainless very light rifle lots of thump has a Tasco 3-9x40 that seems to work just fine and if the worst happens I'm only out $29.95.  I have been wanting to upgrade the glass but there are  other rifles that need scopes.   My Encore 45-70 pistol has a Burris 1x short mag you would have thought it would have broke but it takes a licking and keeps on ticking.  There is just something about fixed power scopes having less moving parts that makes them survive recoil.  My GAPrecision 300 Win Mag has a Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40 FFP and I feel quite certain I can kill any Elk on earth with it. The 300WSM Coyote Lite has --- you got it 10x42 Super Sniper with side focus.  Which brings us back full circle Buy the Super Sniper 10x and you can send me the difference in what you saved. Then I could take my GAP gun elk hunting and enjoy the fact that the FFP reticle gives you known hold over at any power.

LEU60030 Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope                                                                           Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • 1st Focal Plane Tactical Milling Reticle
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • M1 Target Knobs
  • Free Leupold Flip-Open Lens Covers
SWFA: $1,224.95
More Info...



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 21:07
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I know K & S have better glass but that doesnt mean squat if you cant dial in the correction for trajectory and wind or have a reticle that gives you known hold over.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2007 at 21:22
rudy View Drop Down
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Ronk

I am not sensitive to recoil whatsoever. The recoil on this gun is nothing compared to my 375. After 90 rounds on the bench with the 375  shooting this one is like shooting a 22. I don't really even hold it tight to my shoulder. This is my 3rd 300 ultra mag + have been shooting this caliber since 1996. The first 2 were stock Remingtons. The others had along with the 375, leupolds, 100"s of rounds + they never broke. I spent a $1000 because I wanted better glass. The scope started breaking @ 30 rounds, completely broke out @ 120. Re-chamber to 30/06 is not a good answer. There is another post that a guy had this happen on same scope with a 7mm08. Swarovski is backed up heavy doing warranty repairs on the A line scopes. They said that all there warranty repairs are on the A line scopes. No PH or Z6 warranty work whatsoever. Don't want to argue, just want a premium scope that will not break.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2007 at 09:23
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Well,if you can shoot a .375 from a bench, 90 rounds without flinching, you're certainly not the kind of fellow I even WANT to argue with!

At any rate I was just being a little ornery and I apologise for not really adressing your problem. I really hope you find a good scope that works well for you.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2007 at 13:50
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rudy, your story is quite interesting and part of the reason I refuse to spend that much money on a rifle scope.  It just is not necessary.  There are too many other high end scope to choose from that will offer the quality that the Swarovski does.  Kahles.  While the Swarovski is an excellent scope, one of the best, I find their response somewhat lame.  It should have been able to handle the recoil of your rifle.  I would even try another one, if they will warrant it.  However, as I stated earlier, the S&B has the reputation for being probably the toughest scope made.  Other high end choices include U.S. Optics.  You will pay a premium in weight for the S&B, but if you can handle the recoil of a 375 without a problem, then 4 ounces should not be a big deal.  I would recommend a Trijicon TR-22, which blew me away optically and in a recent publication handled the recoil of a 375 Ruger on an African hunting trip, but it has a 56 mm objective.  Otherwise, go for the S&B.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2007 at 14:56
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Yep. Part of the problem is just so many choices. One thing about that did impress me about Swarovski is that they said if I put it back on gun + break it again that they will warranty it again no matter how many times it breaks. Yes it did take awhile to get scope back but if a Schmidt + Bender breaks there web site says it will be sent to Germany. How long is that going to take. I have heard story's about broken scopes over the years but never had it happen to me. So many scopes + so many different rifles. I had sold 2 leupolds to buy this scope + it broke. I was kind of flabergasted. I couldn't beleive it. Ronk your apoligie is accepted. Poll + your guy's help. Input from other sites + shooters is really leaning towards the Swarovski Z6. The tech rep @ Swarovski guaranteed me that I could not break the Z6 or the PH scope internaly on any rifle. I think I am going to give the Z6 a try.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2007 at 19:54
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Big mistake.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2007 at 22:23
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Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Big mistake.

 

My thought exactly, If you are not getting full credit from the big S I would be headed back to the Leupold or buy a custom made U.S. Optics if you want the best.

 

LEU63175 New Leupold 3.5-14x56 VX-7L 34mm Riflescope                                                                             New Leupold 3.5-14x56 VX-7L 34mm Riflescope
  • Satin
  • Boone & Crockett
  • 34mm
  • Long Range
  • Xtended Twilight Lens
  • Free One-year Membership to Boone and Crockett Club's Associates Program w/ Purchase
SWFA: $1,799.95
More Info...

LEU63190 New Leupold 4.5-18x56 VX-7L 34mm Riflescope                                                                             New Leupold 4.5-18x56 VX-7L 34mm Riflescope
  • Satin
  • Boone & Crockett
  • 34mm
  • Long Range
  • Xtended Twilight Lens
  • Free One-year Membership to Boone and Crockett Club's Associates Program w/ Purchase
SWFA: $1,899.95
More Info...

LEU60030 Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope                                                                           Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • 1st Focal Plane Tactical Milling Reticle

 

SWFA: $1,224.95
More Info...

<=========<<<<

  

Ok I know you are talking hunting scope but the FFP scopes allow you to take a known hold over point on the reticle and use it at any power as the same known hold over point (not just the highest power like most balistic reticles) - this could be extremely valuable when hunting game at say 200 to 600 yds.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2007 at 00:00
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rudy: "After 90 rounds on the bench with the 375  shooting this one is like shooting a 22."

 

Either would be an exercise in masochism for me!  Good times!  Just kidding.  But man, that's a pounding.  And seriously, it could damage your eyes.  A detached retina would haunt you for the rest of your life.  As to a scope for a 300 ultra a little extra weight might be a good thing.

 

Dolphin: "Other high end choices include U.S. Optics."

 

Just curious.  Are these the creme de la creme?  They sure look 'bullet-proof', pun intended.  Wouldn't mind putting one on a dream rifle someday.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2007 at 10:47
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I am in a simular situation. I have a .340wby that has trashed a couple of scopes, interestingly one of them was Swarovski A Line 4-x12x50.  I am leaning towards a Schmidt and Bender 3-12x50 Precision Hunter.  I have looked through the Swaro Z6 and they are very nice scopes but I am very hesitant to buy another Swaro based on results so far.  Plus I have a few questions.  I am a guy who likes to dial the range in for Elevation adjustments.  I can do this with S&B but can't seem to get an answer about adding target turrets to a Z6.  Anyone have that answer?

 

If you get the z6 please write a full report.  I know I'll be anxiously awaiting your results. 

 

Thanks

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2007 at 11:50
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here is a review don't know if you say it

 

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6455&PN=1

 

the closet to target turrets would be a casio label machine

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2007 at 16:39
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OKY DOKY, back into undecided mode. There is a review on Cabelas sight on the Swaroski PH, review number 5, that uses the same coil spring sytem as the Z6. His broke out after 1 sight in, 1 hunt with 1 animal killed, + 1 practice session. Swarozski told me the coil spring system was impossible to break. OBVIOUSLY NOT. This scope was also on a 300 ultra mag. I am a very large man so the recoil of the gun itself is no trouble what so ever. This is turning into a very good thread on reliability of these upper line scopes. The other thing that makes me wonder a little bit is Swarovski cut the warranty on the Z6. WHY? Now I am leaning back towards the Schmidt + Bender. Maybe I should call them + see what they have to say. There is a revew on 6mmbr.com on a Schmidt + Bender police marksman. This guy is a heavy tactical competitor + they don't shoot heavy recoiling calibers. He says there is a broken rifle scope every match from every manufacture excluding Schmidt + Bender + that it is the most reliable scope made from any manufacture. I wonder what these guy's that hunt Africa with really big boomers use (378,s 416,s 458,s 460 Weatherby;s etc.). Do they stay with a fixed power scopes, iron sights so they don't have breakage? I am going to talk with Schmidt + Bender on Monday + I will post what they say.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2007 at 16:43
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have you thought about kahles??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2007 at 19:27
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Originally posted by rudy rudy wrote:

OKY DOKY, back into undecided mode. There is a review on Cabelas sight on the Swaroski PH, review number 5, that uses the same coil spring sytem as the Z6. His broke out after 1 sight in, 1 hunt with 1 animal killed, + 1 practice session. Swarozski told me the coil spring system was impossible to break. OBVIOUSLY NOT. This scope was also on a 300 ultra mag. I am a very large man so the recoil of the gun itself is no trouble what so ever. This is turning into a very good thread on reliability of these upper line scopes. The other thing that makes me wonder a little bit is Swarovski cut the warranty on the Z6. WHY? Now I am leaning back towards the Schmidt + Bender. Maybe I should call them + see what they have to say. There is a revew on 6mmbr.com on a Schmidt + Bender police marksman. This guy is a heavy tactical competitor + they don't shoot heavy recoiling calibers. He says there is a broken rifle scope every match from every manufacture excluding Schmidt + Bender + that it is the most reliable scope made from any manufacture. I wonder what these guy's that hunt Africa with really big boomers use (378,s 416,s 458,s 460 Weatherby;s etc.). Do they stay with a fixed power scopes, iron sights so they don't have breakage? I am going to talk with Schmidt + Bender on Monday + I will post what they say.

 

 Actually, I don't think very many professional hunters scope the heavy fight stoppers. Irons are usually preferred at the distances involved.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2007 at 21:15
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couple of hundred rds thru 2x7 leo , rely mostly on NEG irons.

a gun recoils differently when shot off a bench, perhaps part of the problem

personally I'd go with the 3.5x10 vxl boone and crocket, but then I'm crazy.

 

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