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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2012 at 22:16
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First two shots with 260 accubonds and H4831 went into the same hole. So far so good,
Third shot went .8" away. OK I can live with that.... Fourth and verifier 3" away. Oh Oh!

To make a long story short loads were

260 AB 112 113 H4831
230 Raptors H4350
270 Hornady H4831
250 TTSX with RL22
300 Sierra BT IMR 7828
300 Sierra BT RL25.

Best group (after the initial group) was 3.5-4" worst was 10" at 100 yds. :x :shock:

This is a 4.5x14x40mm MARK 4 30mm strongest scope they make.

Before this she broke a 3.5x10 VARI x-3
and a 4.5x14x40mm 30mmtube LR VX3

What to do? Called Leupold and they were amazed. The manage said sent the scope back to his attention to analyze it in the impact department.



I had a lead sled before this.   Based on Leupold's recommendation I sold the lead sled. Too much on the scope. They told me to get the Mark 4 toughest scope they make. I did and that is what broke today.  It does have a muzzle brake.  Darn that 378 WBY MAG!

Was thinking on a Nightforce.  Nightforce is great but it looks so out of place on a 8.5 lbs light svelte looking sporter.



Edited by Fotis - July/18/2012 at 20:09
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2012 at 00:06
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Dark Lord of Optics

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What do you use this rifle for?

You did not mention the caliber.

Is there a specific scope configuration you need for this gun?

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2012 at 11:26
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   .375 caliber
 
  I'm guessing .378 Weatherby.  If not then a wildcat.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2012 at 13:32
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What kind of mounts were you using?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2012 at 20:07
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378 Weatherby, my long range elk gun,

Krieger barrel Japanese lasermark.  8.5 lbs bare naked.










About the bases and rings  no movement at all. Leupold steel bases with steel QRW rings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2012 at 21:37
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Very nice looking rifle... I've been meaning to get one of those...
Put an SS 5-20 on it... problems solved.  
However, I've used a Mark 4 on a Barrett M107... It did everything I wanted/needed.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2012 at 21:42
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Yup  that is what leupold said.  They test them on their 50 cals.  They also said the scope might be too heavy for that setup....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2012 at 22:04
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If you have a heavy recoil rifle I still believe the most durable scope to be a fixed power scope.  I have
 owned several Mk4 scopes and quite a few Super Sniper scopes this would be high on my list:  Plus I believe the size of this will suit that rifle better.
SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD10X42MQ
  • Matte
  • Patented Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
  • .10 Mrad
  • HD Model
$799.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2012 at 22:05
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If you must use a variable I think this would also be a good choice, but I still believe the fixed power scope to be tougher because it has less moving parts.
SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQ
  • Patented First Focal Plane Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,299.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 02:52
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Anyone have any opinions on the Swarovski Z3 3-10x42? 12 OZ scope....light
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 06:56
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The z3 is a fantastic scope, but I believe it's a step in the wrong direction if you intend to put this on the .378.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 07:27
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Due to leupold's statement that the Mark 4 was too heavy, I was looking at the lighter ones.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 08:50
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If you don't want the SS than take a look at Minox ZA5 6-30x56 @ 20.5 ozs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 14:38
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Originally posted by Fotis Fotis wrote:

Due to leupold's statement that the Mark 4 was too heavy, I was looking at the lighter ones.

That's a copout.  First, that certainly isn't the toughest scope they make.  The "real" MK 4's, the original fixed 10X and 16X, were built to be pretty much indestructible, the 4-14 and others were converted hunting scopes.  Yes, they did add an extra erector spring at some point and some other things but they were never built to the same standards.

The new MK 6 and 8's are too new to have much durability history yet but I'll bet if you talk to somebody in their tactical division about those scopes you won't get any of this "too heavy to take recoil" BS.

Weight is only a "problem" for poorly designed/built scopes.  Many things you do to a scope to make it stronger makes it heavier as well.  Yes, a light POS will generally outlast a heavy POS on a hard kicker, but a really strong scope--no matter what it weighs--will have better odds of lasting than either.  If you put a Nightforce, 5-20 SS, any of the various S&B PMII's, etc, on the rifle the overwhelming odds are your problems will be over forever as long as your mounting system is up to snuff. 

On that note, I don't have a lot of faith in the PRW's in hard kicking applications as I've seen the recoil key come loose and get crunched a couple of times.  If those bases can take picatinny rings I'd suggest a more durable set.  Mine won't fit but it looks like Seekins might.  A one-piece rail glued down opens up mounting options and gives much peace of mind.

A light rifle that is extremely hard kicking upon which you wish to mount a heavy long range scope is the hardest application there is for scope mounts.  It's not the rifle to be skimping on them with.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 15:50
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...And by any measure, a .378 Wby is a vicious kicking beast that places great demands on scopes and mounts!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 16:41
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Originally posted by Fotis Fotis wrote:

Due to leupold's statement that the Mark 4 was too heavy, I was looking at the lighter ones.

A couple of points:
-Scope weight puts all sorts of stress on the mounts.  For a beast like this scope, get high quality mounts.
-A scope is either designed for high recoil applications or it isn't.  You can not judge that by weight of the scope.  Leupold variables are not built especially well for the most part (there are exceptions), so they try to steer you in a different direction.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 18:03
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I'd listen to ILya, fotis. He's our resident Optic engineer and tells it like it is!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 19:48
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Leupold builds their 1.5x5, 1.75x6 and 3x9 in the VX 3 line to take hunting rifle recoil.
Their tactical scopes are also designed to take heavy recoil, vice USMC Scout Snipers with Barrets.
First check out the mounts, I have seen .460 Weatherby's actually flex and bend the mounts.
Check your bedding, is the action moving in the stock or is the barrel moving and hitting the forend?
Check the scope over to see if it is moving in the mounts (Locktite can be your friend here) then check it on a rifle of much lower recoil force to see if it is trashed.
If the scope is trashed or a bad sample send it back and get a new one or ask to be upgraded and offer to pay the difference.
IMHO certain calibers can destroy variable power scopes no matter who makes them. (Nightforce, Hensoldt, S&B and SWFA are exceptions)
If you intend to upgrade ask Leupold to recommend a scope for your rig that will work for long range..they will have something, you may need to talk to an engineer to get the correct info.
Nighforce and others make stout mounts that will take the recoil, you may end up spending $500.00+ on mounts before you find something that can take the recoil.
Leupold makes scopes that work on .338 Lapua and .50 BMG, they should have one that will work on your .378, talk to an engineer and get the straight scoop.
Press on and good luck.
Art
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 19:51
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I understand.  My initial wish was to keep the rifle as "sporty"as possible, hence the 3.5x10x40.  Lightweight and svelte.  Apparently I have to go heavy robust and bulky to tame this monster.
Well thank you fellas for all your input.  I truly appreciate it
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 20:25
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They all fail at times, including all the euros.  Get a fixed Leupold 4 or 6x and call it good.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2012 at 03:44
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Sure, they all can fail "at times," but those times seem to be dramatically less frequent with some brands and models than others. 

When is the last time we saw somebody complaining about a Nightforce falling apart due to recoil?  <<Crickets chirping, crickets chirping....>>  I'm not aware of any 5-20 SS that has "broken" in any mission-ending way for any reason.  Not a single one I'm aware of.   Hensoldt sold scopes here for years without having a single return for any reason.  S&B doesn't tell militaries around the world they need to use small, fixed 6X scopes on their 338 and 50 Cal sniper rifles because their good long range scopes are "too heavy" to take severe recoil.

In short, deciding to use a much less capable scope because people tell you its the only thing that can withstand the recoil is a choice not based upon the facts.  There are lots of big, heavy, really good long range scopes that won't be phased by the recoil.

Even if he doesn't feel the need for so much magnifications and size, I'd still choose a NF 2.5-10 or SS 3-9 for any hard use application where turrets will be twisted all the time every day of the week over a lightly built Leupold or Swaro, etc.  That's exactly what they're built for.




Hens

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2012 at 06:47
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Now I feel so much better about going from a light rifle/heavy scope to a heavy rifle/light scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2012 at 15:04
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Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:



Even if he doesn't feel the need for so much magnifications and size, I'd still choose a NF 2.5-10 or SS 3-9 for any hard use application where turrets will be twisted all the time every day of the week over a lightly built Leupold. That's exactly what they're built for.

 


Those two would be high on my list.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2012 at 15:39
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pretty much decided on this one and just ordered one.


http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P50716.aspx


Edited by Fotis - July/20/2012 at 16:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2012 at 16:17
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Just an FYI the SS 3-9x only has about 3 inches of eye relief on 9x.  That seems pretty short for a gun of that caliber to me.  
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