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Help with scope mounting

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2004 at 21:56
bpbama View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: November/15/2004
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Points: 7

Buying a Burris FF2 to go on .270wsm.  I am completely new to this.  Can I mount this myself or do I need to have it done?  If I do it myself, what mounts and rings should I use ( med, low, high ) ( 2 piece, 1 piece ), etc.

 

Thanks,

Brandon

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2004 at 23:52
ranburr View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


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Points: 1082

I prefer a one piece Leupold base and the lowest rings possible.  I also have two piece bases that work just fine.  All of my grandfathers guns had one piece Redfield bases on them and that is what I was taught to use whenever possible.  You can mount the scope yourself.  Install the base and put your rifle in a vise, wrap a towel so not to scratch youg gun.  Make sure that your rings have stayed together and are facing the way they were in the box.  Install the rings, the front will have to be twisted in (do not use your scope).  I suggest that you you either purchase or fashion a lapping rod out of a 1" steel rod, you will need some sort of handle.  Apply a lapping compound to the rings and work the rod front to back slowly twisting it with the handle.  You will be able to see where metal is comimg off of the rings where they are slightly out of alignment.  Once you have finshed this, install your scope in the rings.  Place a level on your top adjustment turrent, make sure it is running length-wise toward the barrel.  Once you get the scope level, tighten the ring screws evenly.  Now bore-sight and hit the range.  It sounds more detailed then it is.  There are other ways of doing it, but this is what is easiest for me with the equipment that I have. 

 

ranburr



Edited by ranburr
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2004 at 07:40
bpbama View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: November/15/2004
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thanks for the help
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2004 at 09:32
new pig hunter View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: August/27/2004
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ranburr,

 

Because I'm new at this scope business, I'm now lost on this mounting method you describe.  And I'm really nervous, because I also have a Burris FF2 and simply bolted everything up, no lapping at all.  I hope I didn't break something.

 

 So if I may, here's a few questions of a technical nature.....

 

You say the front ring has to be "twisted in" ..... what does that mean ??  Is that the lapping procedure you describe ??

 

When do you stop lapping ??  Since lapping always removes metal, is the intent just to smooth things out a little bit, or really open it up a few thousandth's or ten-thousandths ??

    Is the hole in the rings, in which the scope tube lies, made undersized ??  Is the hole really 1" diameter, or actually a few thousandth's less, and lapping is required ??

 

When the scope itself is then set into the lower ring halves, and (I assume) the upper ring halves secured in-place, you say to place a level on the top adjustment turret.

   This is where I really get lost.  You say to get the scope level.  Level with what ??  Level in reference to what ??  I'm really lost here, since I can't figure out what reference plane the top adjustment turret has in common with anything "important."

   "Level" means parallel, and I can't figure out what two planes need to be parallel.

 

A pal of mine said installing a scope would be easy...... maybe he fibbed to me..... again.......

 

Cheers and Thanks,

 

Carl

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2004 at 13:29
ranburr View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: May/16/2004
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Ok, keep calm.  It is not as big of a deal as it sounds.  The twist that I am refering to is the front ring.  If you get a set of Leupold or Redfield rings it will be obvious to you.  The bottom of the front ring fits in a slot and then twist clockwise into place.  Many people, probably most people do not lap their rings.  The reason for lapping is that your rifle probably has pre-drilled holes for your scope base.  Those holes are usually not perfectly aligned  Thus when you put your rings and scope on, your scope will be slightly twisted and out of whack.  This condition is worse on some guns than others, even from the same manufacturer.  Can rifles be accurate without lapping?  Yes.  Can some rifles be so out of whack that you have to lap?  Yes.  It just depends on the particular setup, thus I always do it.  When you start your lapping you are going to see that it looks like only part of the rings are actually being affeted.  They will become shiny, those are the areas that are not precisely aligned.  Just take them down until it smooths out all the way across.  Once you have the rings tended to, drop the scope in and only tighten the top of the rings lightly.  You need to be able to turn the scope in the rings.  The level is used to ensure that your crosshairs are straight in the tube.  If you are level on the top turrent, your crosshairs will be level.  This project is not as hard as it sounds.  Good luck.  And ask again if you need to. 

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2004 at 15:26
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Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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ranburr,

 

Sierra Hotel !!   now I understand,  Thanks Much !!

   --  also, the rings I have are not the twist-in variety, but the "small screw across the bottom" ...  Weaver style ???

 

As to crosshairs, I "eyeball" the vertical crosshair into correct up/down position, and let the horizontal be as it is.  I have a Leupold Vari-X II scope which has no turrets, and there just isn't much surface upon which to lay a level, much less trust what it says.

   Is that a reasonable approach ??

 

Here's a crosshair question:  why is it that the crosshairs don't look perfectly perpendicular ??  I've noticed it in my Leupold, in my Simmons..... the horizontal crosshair just doesn't "look" perpendicular to the vertical crosshair.

     I wear glasses, so might it be a function of refraction in all the lenses of the scope and what I'm wearing ??

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2004 at 18:20
ranburr View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


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You have Weaver style rings.  I do not like Weaver style rings for a number of reasons:  there is no windage adjustment, thus you must use up the clicks on your scope; I don't believe that they are as strong as the Redfield style, I am talking the standard setups not the super heavy tactical types; they seem to be more prone to mis-alignment.  Your eyeball approach is fine as long as it works for you.  Keep in mind that it is probably costing you a couple of clicks of your adjustment.  I am not sure what to tell you about the crosshairs, your guess about the glasses might be correct.  I have not heard of that one and I do not wear glasses.  If it happened to you on just one scope I would say it was the scope, especially the Simmons.  But since you are also seeing it in the Leupold I would guess that it has something to do with your unique vision.

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2004 at 19:07
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Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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Again, Thank You for the insights.

 

Since this thread got started on a Burris FF2 note, I'll steer it back.  I have a Burris FF2 on a lever action and am having sight-in & apparent misalignment problems, I've been asking around and got steered to Burris Signature Rings and the Burris Pos-Align Insert Kit.  So I asked Burris about this, and they steered me into their tech website which discusses misalignment problems and the Burris solution to such problems, click on "Signature Rings" and see page 2:

  http://www.burrisoptics.com/technotes.html

 

 

my boss has told me many times I lack "vision" ..... maybe he is smarter than I think ..... nah......

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2004 at 01:13
ranburr View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: May/16/2004
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Burris uses plastic inserts to perform essentially the same task as lapping.  They make good rings.  I do not like the plastic inserts.  The ones that I have seen and attempted to use never seemed to line up correctly.  I know other people who love them.  If you can get them to work as advertised they should help you out.

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2004 at 16:24
new pig hunter View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: August/27/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 25

ranburr,

 

you've got all the good info, Thanks Much !!  I say that because I'd never heard of a lapping-in procedure, I always thought this scope mounting business was simply to assemble all the pieces in the right place.

 

Long story, here's the short version:  after messing around last night with my problem-child lever action and a laser boresighter, I've concluded something is seriously misaligned with the "as assembled" setup and lapping is now going to be my next step to figure things out.  I now better understand how a scope can be misaligned in the rings, and how damage can occur if the misalignment is really bad.  So if nothing else, I'll get some practical experience with lapping and learn something.

 

Thank You for the insights,

 

Carl

 

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