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Help with recoil management (videos)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2013 at 22:09
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Ive been having a problem while shooting in the prone position. When I fire, I can hit my target ok but my poa is up and to the left of my target (and pretty far too) after recoil. I cant figure out what my problem is, so here are some videos of me shooting, hopefully someone can help me figure out what im doing wrong.
 
The first video shows me firing three shots, I have to move my body to the left after every round I fire, this is especially noticeable after the second shot. The second video shows an overview of my position.
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 05:38
supertool73 View Drop Down
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I see no videos
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 05:55
Gil P. View Drop Down
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That's weird, they're playing just fine on my computer, I just tried them. Maybe its your browser? Im using internet explorer. Here are the links:
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 06:19
supertool73 View Drop Down
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I am no expert at diagnosing form, but It doesnt appear you are preloading the bipod very much. Thats hard to do on some surfaces i know. I bought pod claws for my harris bipod for thatreason. That will with the jump up which is cause by the downpressure of the rifle bouncing off the ground. The other option you have which i am liking more and more is to shoot off a pack. It pretty much eliminates that hope completely as it has no hard surface to bonce off any more.

This looks to be the case, but make sure the top tip of your stock is in that little pocket just below your collarbone the same every time

If you gun is bouncung right or left then your entire body position needs to move that same way. Dont try to just make a shoulder adjustment or it will not change your natural point of aim. So if your gun bounces right in recoil slightly adjust your whole body hips and all to the right. When you line up a shot get already the. Close your eyes for 10 seconds and completely relax. Then open your eyes again and see if you are still pointed perfect at the target you are pointed in correct to your natural point of aim. If you are off, the. You need to adjust your whole body and try again. Over time and practice you will easily just got right in to a natural point in and you will be able to see your impacts as you shoot

Another things that helps is a heavy rifle. A 15+ lb rifle makes it all easier :). Except carrying it around that is.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 06:31
Gil P. View Drop Down
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The surface I was shooting off of was pretty hard, but I found that even when I can easily push my body into the bipod on a soft surface, the same thing happens and I come off target after recoil. I think you might be right about my natural point of aim, ill try and correct that as im sure that its part of my problem. I tried showing how I load the bipod in my first video, I know shooting off of hard surfaces isn't ideal, but I still shouldn't be coming off target that much.
 
How are the podclaws working out for you? How are they when shooting off of concrete? And carrying around a heavy rifle gets old FAST haha, maybe I should just duct tape some weights onto mine when I shoot prone Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 06:48
supertool73 View Drop Down
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I love the pod claws. I have a different set of feet for shooting off cement.

I think you need to preload the bipod a lot more. Some people like to put the pod on there shooting mat and rig it up so you can really push it foward. You need to be able to push it forward hard enough to over come the rebound off the ground.

Seriously try out bag shooting too. That problem is just gone at that point. I still shoot both ways and the both work well and i can shoot well either way. But off a bag seems to best best for me with a lighter rifle
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 06:54
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Natural point of aim, and get straight behind the rifle! If you are straight behind it, it will not move left or right... I struggle with this at times too, that's why I bought a muzzle-brake!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 07:08
supertool73 View Drop Down
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One more thought. Again not sure on how your doing this, but When preloading make sure you are just not leaning into the rifle with just your shoulders/upper body or pushing with your toes at the last minute. Your preload needs to be part of your natural point of aim as well. So if you need more or less preload your entire body needs to move forward or back. Otherwise when you relax for that final trigger press like you should be you will loose that preload and you get the hop back.
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Sparky View Drop Down
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I agree with the comments on body position and stock placement, but disagree with preloading the bipod. Preloading can cause inconsistencies because it is very difficult to preload the same every time. Since I have gone to a neutral positioning of the bipod and as long as my body position is correct after the recoil I come right back on target. And my shooting is more consistent as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 10:43
Gil P. View Drop Down
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It might be hard to tell but how does my position look? Does it look like im pushing one of my shoulders forward? Do I look square with the rifle? To get a good npa I always need to move my body to the left (I adjust my windage by moving from the hips, im not only moving the rifle to get on target, but my body with it). My cheekweld pushes the muzzle left.

 
Thanks for everyones suggestions, ill definitely  be doing some dry fire practice today.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 14:11
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That ryfel looks to be a sporter weight, what cartridge is it chambered for?
 
Try grasping the forend to add stability and mass.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 15:00
Gil P. View Drop Down
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The rifle isn't a sporter weight. Its got a 24" medium palma barrel chambered in 308. I don't  want to grip the fore end because it could make my hold inconsistent and I need to use my left hand to control the rear bag.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 15:03
hatton mann View Drop Down
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Well,,,at least the rear end is under control.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 15:41
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Aggreed you definitly dont want to be grabbing the forend. That adds a whole nother variable u now have to compensate for.

I have read stuff from very good instuctors saying u should be inline behind the rifle amd others who say to be bladded off to the support side. Obviously either way can work. Just gotta find what works best
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 17:47
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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you are holding the rt. hand grip like a bench shooter withalmost no thumb wrap. try griping not necessarily tighter, but tight enough to actively pull the stock into the shoulder tighter. Do not pressure the trigger until it breaks, but push the shot off through the target knowing exactly when the shot will break. Loading the bidpod is not necessary and in ways is a bad habit. Some bipods will not allow this TRG as an example, and the shoot experience is much more like shooting off a bag. Also from the camera angle looks like you might need a cheek rest to straighten your neck a bit, and also check the length of the stock, (appears a bit short) as this will increase head hangover on the stock. Dry firing will not help that much on your problem. Dry fire helps by getting the shooter into the same position each time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 19:48
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

I agree with the comments on body position and stock placement, but disagree with preloading the bipod. Preloading can cause inconsistencies because it is very difficult to preload the same every time. Since I have gone to a neutral positioning of the bipod and as long as my body position is correct after the recoil I come right back on target. And my shooting is more consistent as well.
 
I agree with that, especially since you will not always be shooting off of the same surface. Have you noticed any improvement in group size since you went to a more neutral position?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 20:24
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

you are holding the rt. hand grip like a bench shooter withalmost no thumb wrap. try griping not necessarily tighter, but tight enough to actively pull the stock into the shoulder tighter. Do not pressure the trigger until it breaks, but push the shot off through the target knowing exactly when the shot will break. Loading the bidpod is not necessary and in ways is a bad habit. Some bipods will not allow this TRG as an example, and the shoot experience is much more like shooting off a bag. Also from the camera angle looks like you might need a cheek rest to straighten your neck a bit, and also check the length of the stock, (appears a bit short) as this will increase head hangover on the stock. Dry firing will not help that much on your problem. Dry fire helps by getting the shooter into the same position each time.
Ill try what you say about the thumb wrap, it will looks like its going to help me control the rifle better.
How can you measure what you correct length of pull should be? I did the 90 degree crook of elbow thing and I have trouble reaching the trigger when I hold the rifle that way. I might have a long neck though, and my fingers are short. Do you know of any stock configurations that place the hand closer to the trigger? Im not at all saying that getting a new stock will solve my problems, just something to think about for the future.
 
Once I get this recoil management thing figured out, I want to post another video so that everyone can see how great I am! Or at least show my progress, and get some opinions about any other minor issues I may be having. Again thank you for all of the help and if anyone has any more advice they can give me I would be glad to hear it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2013 at 21:43
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Your rifle jumps a inch to an inch and a half to the left on each shot. There is a difference between target prone and combat prone. You are shooting target in combat prone. This pic shows proper target prone position.
 
Notice the rifle is set "on" the ball or meaty part of the shoulder. Not on or near the collar bone. This gives better straight line support during recoil.
 
The purpose of combat prone is to give the enemy a very small straight on profile. But it comes with a price for repeated shots which by the way isn't as critical in combat. One shot one kill and move on!
 
Correct your shooting form and I think you'll minimize these problems. Good Luck!!!
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