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Help with an AR 15 for mid range shooting

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2012 at 10:40
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Great forum.
 
I've been reading for a while trying to educate myself, but it seems like every step up I take doing that just presents more options. Whacko  So I figure it's time to just ask for help...
 
I have an AR with an Aimpoint.  Love it for what it does, but I'd like to get out to the longer ranges that my 16" rifle is capable of.  I'm not looking for anything more precise than 8x11 paper/steel sized targets... just looking to make contact.
 
I would like to stay light and small, but I know that normally comes with a hefty price tag.  I would really also prefer mill/mill.  I would like to stay around $400 for the scope and plan on getting a nice ($200ish) mount for it.
 
I don't hunt.  I basically want this scope for taking a long range carbine classes and for the regular "sniper challenges" at a local range.  The classes are from 100-700 yards, and the challenges are from 500 and in at known and unknown distances.
 
My big delima at the moment seems to be between variable and fixed, and is less mag better than more (4-6x vs 10-14x)?  The scope will be going in front of contacts on medium sharp mid 40 year old eyes.
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2012 at 10:56
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I know this is a little outside your price range, but your best bet is this scope:

I've got one set up for my light carbine (which turned out to be more accurate than I expected) in a Bobro mount and it works exceedingly well.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2012 at 12:01
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Thanks Ilya.  That's one of the scopes I keep looking.  Like everything about it, the mill/mill, FFP, reputation, etc.

Does it "fit" well on the AR platform?  Could you use it not on a pod or bench rest?

I'm also looking at the fixed 6x and 10x SS.  Would the 3X9 still seem to be a more workable option for my needs?

Which Bobro mount are you using?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2012 at 12:04
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Just tossing out a plug for my for sale item.

But you could also go with this if you are considering the 1-4x.  It has the bobro mount with it and would end up costing you a little less than the 3-9x with the bobro.

http://www.opticstalk.com/swfa-ss-14x_topic33921.html
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2012 at 12:07
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Originally posted by MBG MBG wrote:

Thanks Ilya.  That's one of the scopes I keep looking.  Like everything about it, the mill/mill, FFP, reputation, etc.

Does it "fit" well on the AR platform?  Could you use it not on a pod or bench rest?

I'm also looking at the fixed 6x and 10x SS.  Would the 3X9 still seem to be a more workable option for my needs?

Which Bobro mount are you using?

I think having variable magnification is pretty useful on an AR.  Both 6x and 10x SS scopes will work fine, but 3-9x42 is more versatile.  It comes down to money.  If you can stretch your budget a bit, go for the variable.  Otherwise, for $300 get a fixed power.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2012 at 12:07
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Welcome to Optics Talk. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2012 at 12:10
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Just tossing out a plug for my for sale item.

But you could also go with this if you are considering the 1-4x.  It has the bobro mount with it and would end up costing you a little less than the 3-9x with the bobro.

http://www.opticstalk.com/swfa-ss-14x_topic33921.html
I like both the 3-9 and the 1-4 SS. If you go with 1-4 Supertool does have a good deal offered here and we can all vouch for him.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2012 at 12:18
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Just tossing out a plug for my for sale item.

But you could also go with this if you are considering the 1-4x.  It has the bobro mount with it and would end up costing you a little less than the 3-9x with the bobro.

http://www.opticstalk.com/swfa-ss-14x_topic33921.html

Hmmmm... what kind of ranges can be expected with your 1-4x?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2012 at 12:26
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For what you have stated your uses, I think a 1-4x would work well.  The 3-9x would work well also, but it is a bigger scope.

I have shot at steel out to 870 yards with that scope and was able to make consistent hits.  If most of my use was going to be 400 to 500 yards plus I would want the 3-9x.  But if it was mostly 200 to 300 and under with occasionally going longer range the 1-4x would be my choice.  I suppose that is why I have two of the SS 1-4xs.  I am just selling this one because I sold the rifle I had it on and now I have an extra scope. 

So if it is a dedicated longer range rifle get the 3-9x, but otherwise, I think the 1-4x is a better fit. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2012 at 17:05
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Welcome to the OT MBG!
You are already used to shooting with both eyes open with the Aimpoint so I would think you are getting the best of both worlds with the 1-4x,Distance & Familiarity.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2012 at 19:13
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A friend of mine put one of these on his AR and he seems pretty pleased with it. It isn't exactly small and light, but should be a good fit for his application. Neither is Mil/Mil, but the reticles "do the driving" out to 600.

http://swfa.com/Nikon-2-8x32-M223-Riflescope-Kit-P47974.aspx

Sill not exactly compact, but would be worth looking into:

http://swfa.com/Burris-15-6x40-MTAC-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P53421.aspx

More compact and Mil/Mil, only 4x magnification, but illuminated as well :

http://swfa.com/Vortex-1-4x24-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44569.aspx


I can't vouch for this scope, but it is Mil/Mil, relatively compact, illuminated, and less $ and limited lifetime warranty

http://swfa.com/Falcon-Menace-15-5x30-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P47586.aspx

another with limited lifetime warranty but "illuminated tactical ballistic X reticle and MOA adjustments

http://swfa.com/Weaver-15-6x32-Kaspa-Extreme-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P51367.aspx

I have a SWFA SS in 6x42 and have shot it to 1000 yards. I could see 30cal bullet splashes in dry dirt at that distance, so 6x is enough for 700 yards with good glass. Its not a small scope, and the SS 3-9x42 is similar in size, so it comes down to what is more important to your shooting.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/11/2012 at 06:47
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I got a chance to handle a 1-4x (Leupold) on an AR.  I really wanted to like it because Supertool has a good deal on his SS 1-4x.  The thinking was to get some mid range mag and use it to replace my Aimpoint for CQB letting me sell the AP and be back down close to my ideal budget.  I liked the 1-4x a lot with one eye closed, but I couldn't get a comfortable/repeatable picture on 1x with both eyes open.  My AP is set as far up on the upper receiver as it will go (with an offset mount) and my stock is extended as far back as it will go.  Getting in that 3.75" eye relief box was just too big of a change for me at CQB distances.

For that reason, I'm back to the 3-9x42 or fixed options in the SS line and just use it for dedicated mid-long outings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/11/2012 at 07:24
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The leupold?  What model?  Not sure but dont' think they are a true 1X where you can leave your left eye open.  With the SS you can, comfortably.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/11/2012 at 07:26
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I LIKE compact, low magnification variables and have several. Unlike your AP, mine are located in "normal scope position" with the scope's eye relief and scope height as perfect as possible for natural pointing of the rifle. My Burris Euro Diamond 1-4x works best of my scopes for this purpose due to its comfortable eye box, 30mm tube, German #4 CH and 1x. My Leupold VX-II 1-4 doesn't work quite as well(1" duplex), and the others are 1.5x at lowest magnification, but still work OK in that I shoot with my dominant eye.

You could try to adjust by actually shooting a 1-4x for a while. If that doesn't work for you, or you've simply decided against that idea, just buy a SWFA 6xSS and be done with it. You WILL LOVE IT!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/11/2012 at 08:59
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And the SS will have a much bolder reticle than anything Luepold offers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/11/2012 at 10:32
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Originally posted by MBG MBG wrote:

I got a chance to handle a 1-4x (Leupold) on an AR.  I really wanted to like it because Supertool has a good deal on his SS 1-4x.  The thinking was to get some mid range mag and use it to replace my Aimpoint for CQB letting me sell the AP and be back down close to my ideal budget.  I liked the 1-4x a lot with one eye closed, but I couldn't get a comfortable/repeatable picture on 1x with both eyes open.  My AP is set as far up on the upper receiver as it will go (with an offset mount) and my stock is extended as far back as it will go.  Getting in that 3.75" eye relief box was just too big of a change for me at CQB distances.

For that reason, I'm back to the 3-9x42 or fixed options in the SS line and just use it for dedicated mid-long outings.

I would not draw any conclusion on the performance of the SS 1-4x24 based on any 1-4x Leupold.  Aside from a radically different scope design, Leupold also does not make any 1-4x scopes.  The actual magnification of the VX-2 1-4x20, for example, is 1.4-4x.  VX-R 1.25-4x20 is actually 1.5-4x.

The only one I can think of that actually goes dow to true 1x is the VX-6 1-6x24.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/11/2012 at 11:53
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It was this Leupold model...
 
 
The differences between that and the SS 1-4x are that noticeable?  Wow.
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/11/2012 at 11:57
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yes,  you can see 1.25X is not the same as 1X.  Try wearing a pair of reading glass at .25X you'll see what we are talking about.  The SS is true 1X like your Aimpoint. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/11/2012 at 12:50
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I know this is a little outside your price range, but your best bet is this scope:

I've got one set up for my light carbine (which turned out to be more accurate than I expected) in a Bobro mount and it works exceedingly well.

ILya
I have that scope (mil- dot) on an AR and they're made for each other. 3-9 works well within the effective range of an AR.
A less expensive alternative might be a Zeiss Conquest w/Z600 reticle.
Here's one on the sample list:

http://www.samplelist.com/-P56203.aspx




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/11/2012 at 13:09
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MBG-
 Pardon me for not welcoming you to the forum, earlier- WELCOME.

If you're looking at 1-4, I also have one of these and it's ok. It ain't an SS, but it gets the job done.

http://swfa.com/Optisan-1-4x24-Mamba-EAR30-Mount-Combo-P51887.aspx
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