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Help which scope(s)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2010 at 17:32
kingston View Drop Down
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I am spinning over here...  I am in the process of putting together a new 308 based on the Rem. 700 XCR Compact.  It will be used to hunt deer in the PA mountains, woodchucks, p-dogs, coyotes under twilight and moonlight, Deer over food plots, and at the range.  I am replacing a Rem 700 LTR DM, which after 6k rounds, is no longer grouping as well as I would like.  The LTR has a 1999 Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 M1 LR MD on it.  The scope is still in great shape and functions very well and I plan to keep it.  It is the first quality piece of glass that I bought and I'm kind of attached to it.  On the new build I would like two things and they may not be possible in the same optic.
1.  Low light capabilities at low to medium modification.
2.  Higher magnification for grouping from a bench and for reaching out to the little critters.

Having one scope is always best but.  Because then you know it, trust it and are comfortable with it. However, this will be mounted on someone's m113 rail, most likely LaRue or Warne, so I could have a couple or three optics.  My Mark 4 and ...

I've considered the IOR 3-18x42, but am worried about durability and the QC issues raised in numerous thread.  I also do not know how it will handle low light/twilight/moonlight and it is heavy.  Heavy is not a problem when hunting long range varmints or shooting from a bench, but it is not going to serve well when humping through the mountains.

I've also thought that I could get a fixed power SSx16 to swap on when needed, but would be toast when trying to shoot a chuck or anything else off hand or from a less than ideal position.  When I'm walking to a varmint hunting position or moving from position to position or just slowly moving about the fields, I leave the scope on low power, so that I can make a quick shot and find the critter in the glass.

I know that I have been long winded, thank you all for you experience and expertise!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2010 at 17:43
Steelbenz View Drop Down
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I'd just re-barrel the LTR. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2010 at 17:51
kingston View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Steelbenz Steelbenz wrote:

I'd just re-barrel the LTR. 


I plan to, just not in 308, prob. a 20 cal.  I've already ordered the XCR.  I choose this for the SS.  If I do not like the stock.  I'll just use the one from my LTR w/ the DM.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2010 at 17:53
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Smart move. What is your price range?
edited:  for the scope?




Edited by Steelbenz - February/01/2010 at 17:53
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2010 at 18:08
kingston View Drop Down
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I always like a good deal, but I want quality and something that will retain it's value.  $1500ish if I am excited about what I'm getting.  I just read Koshkin's notes from SHOT, and the March 2.5-25 looks sweet, but they do not seem to have any retailers, just their distributor who lists retail prices.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 00:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 08:19
kingston View Drop Down
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I've always been a Leupold fan, but from what I read lately, there are better bangs for the buck.  I also think that a FFP ret. is important to me.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 16:09
kingston View Drop Down
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Bump For Help!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 16:13
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Have you looked at the Trijicon Accupoint?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 16:22
kingston View Drop Down
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Haven't looked at the Trijicon too much.  I did some reading the other night though, but there seemed like a lot of choices and I was not sure if they would fill the twilight need or not...  I do not quite understand the technology and there really is no place to go see these around here.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 16:35
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Wrote a very long post, went back and re-read your needs, deleted it all, starting over.


1.  You don't want FFP.  The primary reasons for FFP are adjusting fire using the reticle or for ranging, neither will be of much use in your stated purposes.  Plus, they are usually either almost invisible at low power or too big at high power.
Do not get FFP.

You say you need low light hunting, then mention moonlight.  I'd call "low light" dusk and dawn; moonlight is definitely in "illuminated reticle" territory.

I'm not a fan of Leupold, we'll leave it at that.

In my opinion, you'd be hard pressed to beat a Trijicon Accupoint with mil dot reticle and illuminated center dot.

The IOR would probably be fine (it usually has problems on heavy-recoil guns and on long action - and I hear current version are not as failure-prone as prior generations) but will cost more and be larger and heavier.  The trade-off is better glass - and IOR has nice glass.

If you don't "need" illumination, I'd look at Zeiss Conquest in the magnification range of your choice.


In truth, I find 20X scopes all but useless in most situations, eye position is too critical, and the glass has to really good to look nice at those magnification ranges.  I shoot 1,000+ and have nothing over 17X, and have never felt magnification-limited.

Look at Trijicon Accupoints and let us know what you think.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - February/02/2010 at 16:37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 17:04
kingston View Drop Down
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Cid C.

Thankyou for your thoughtful post.  Are these good under moon light and will I be able to see anything with the 5-20x50.  I already own the Mark 4 in 3.5-10x40, a Kahles CL 3-9x42, and a Kahles AH 3-9x42(BNIB).  I hate to get another scope in this range.  How about a fixed 16x or 20x for little critters and paper punching (load development on the Ransom, etc.) and a low power "just short of night vision" optic?

I'm still lost.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 17:13
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Originally posted by kingston kingston wrote:

$1500ish if I am excited about what I'm getting.  I just read Koshkin's notes from SHOT, and the March 2.5-25 looks sweet, but they do not seem to have any retailers, just their distributor who lists retail prices.
 
Forget the March scope then.  It will run about 2X your budget limit.
 
In addition to the aforementioned Trijicon Accupoint, here are a couple of really nice scopes in your budget that would fit your broad criteria pretty nicely:
 
 
 
 


Edited by RifleDude - February/02/2010 at 17:19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 17:17
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Keep in mind this is just my opinion and i am not as optically knowledgeable as some of the other guys on here, but
 
If you want a twilight scope the accu point is killer.  for paper punching the fixed power would be ok but do you really want to play musical scopes?  Sale the Kalhes AH and get the Trijicon AccuPoint, The illumination feature on the Trijicon isn't battery powered its much more advanced will always be illuminated, both daylight, and moonlight. If you look for a fixed look at the Super Sniper 10X HD, or any other fixed SS but keep in mind you will not have good luck with the 16X or 20X at low light conditions.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 17:53
kingston View Drop Down
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Rifle Dude, I should have stated that target turrets, rear paralax adjustment and 30mm tube are all required. 

SVT,  I am wondering if this is a way to go.  Say a 20x SS and the 2.5-10x56.  I do not know if the Trijicon's come with turrets.
 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 17:55
kingston View Drop Down
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Also, I'd buy more Kahles before I bought Zeiss and probably the same for Swaros.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 18:10
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You guys really have me thinking about the Trijicon.  Maybe I will get both the 2.5-10x56 and the 5-20x50, both in Mil Dot.  The 2.5-10 does not seem to be available with Target Turrets. 

What are the advantages to red, green, and amber ret. colors?  I wish there was somewhere I could go and see these in person.

Does SWFA let you send them back if you don't mount them?

  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2010 at 13:12
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Well, I still have not decided on glass.  I've gotten great reviews of the Trijicon Accu-points that you guys suggested from a buddy that I'm on DU with.  I am trying to find a time to look through his, especially at night.  I did pick up a very lightly used MK4 Ultra 10x.  I just couldn't resist.  I thought that I was settled on the IOR 3-18x42, but after hearing the trouble that folks had with both the scope and the inconsistency of service/support, I held off. 

On the ring and mount side I also could not decide.  So, I am trying a bunch of mounts and rings.  I have a Seekins mount and rings, a LaRue mount and rings, a McCann mount, TPS rings, and a Badger mount coming.  I'll post my thoughts, either in this thread or in the review forum, if that is more appropriate.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2010 at 06:12
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Maybe the new IOR 3.5-18x50 is what you need. FFP mil/mil or SFP moa/moa, illuminated reticle and 50mm aperture, for low light. Adjustable from 40m to infinity.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2010 at 07:23
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Vortex 5-20x50 Razor HD 35mm Rifle Scope EBR-2 Vortex 5-20x50 Razor HD 35mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - RZR551
  • Matte
  • EBR-2 Reticle
  • 35mm
  • Side Focus
  • .1 Mrad
$1,999.95 
Add Vortex 5-20x50 Razor HD 35mm Rifle Scope to Cart
Well as long as  you are all over the board why dont you put this in Badger rings and base and call it good as far as your .308   then go out and buy a Tikka in a 22--250 and put the Trijicon 5-20 on that using Talley lightweight rings. I'm not sure what you need the other 10x Mk4 for but its a good back up scope so put it in the La Rue rings and toss it in the safe.  Somewhere down the line I really forsee a 17 Remmington with a Trijicon 2.5-10x56 on it for your more serious coyote hunting at night.  You just cant make one gun do it all so give in to the dark side and have fun. Devil
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